Allan Ramsbottom
Premium
At the end of the day Vettel cracked(Again) under pressure,all his own doing...Hamilton forced a mistake,unsafe return to track,its in the rules...
F1 Canadian Grand Prix: Vettel Penalty... Deserved or Unfair?
- Thread starter Paul Jeffrey
- Start date
The penalty was unwarranted in this case.
If you look at Vettel's in-car, you can clearly see he is struggling to control the slide first...across the grass and then as it over-steers on re-entry to the circuit.
He can only carry out a safe return to the racing line IF he has control of the car.
He clearly did not.
With extremely hot...grass-covered tires...on a downward sloping off-camber part of the circuit, he did well not to collect the wall on the opposite side.
It was a racing incident which...okay, needed a review but the cockpit video...along with the steering angles should have told the story.
If you look at Vettel's in-car, you can clearly see he is struggling to control the slide first...across the grass and then as it over-steers on re-entry to the circuit.
He can only carry out a safe return to the racing line IF he has control of the car.
He clearly did not.
With extremely hot...grass-covered tires...on a downward sloping off-camber part of the circuit, he did well not to collect the wall on the opposite side.
It was a racing incident which...okay, needed a review but the cockpit video...along with the steering angles should have told the story.
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So give the place up and remain within the rules.
Have you been able to analyse all the data that they analysed before making their decision before you decided to declare that they're wrong?
But what if the telemetry (that the stewards saw and I'm assuming you didn't) said that Vettel was accelerating towards that same wall he was trying to avoid?
Allan Ramsbottom
Premium
Rubbish..he was under pressure,made a mistake,Hamilton would never have tried an overtake there.As @Denis Betty said, give the place up and remain in the rules..
Lewis was not ahead when Sebastian's car got unsettled, so he was not under an obligation to hand anything over.
The man didn't simply run off track and then come back on intentionally endangering another competitor.
He momentarily lost control of his car at approximately 150 mph and tried to collect it.
These guys are not out for a Sunday stroll....they're racing.
Do folk here really think that a driver...any driver, would willingly skate across that track...at that unsighted location into the path of numerous F1 cars traveling at better than 150 mph?
Really?
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Tomi
”Maximum Attack!”
It's not RD Club racing what they do there
He caused Hamilton to stop because of an unsafe return to the track, therefore compromising his lap time. He disadvantaged another driver. I think not handing the position over is cheating. Maybe it's just me.
If only everybody did.It's not RD Club racing what they do there
I barely bother to watch F1 at this point. This race may be my tipping point. What a joke. I seem to remember an unsafe pit entry by Hamilton last season. End result: No Penalty.
I voted for "yes", which is a quite unpopular opinion, but let me try to explain.
First of all, try to judge it as emotionless and neutral as possible. I know after a race all emotions are heated up, bit I will try to do it as neutral as possible.
So, build up: Vettel did a mistake. That's a fact and you can't deny that. To correct it, he had no other option than going back on the racing line to save it. He was aware that Hamilton was there and tried everything to avoid it. But if we consider the pace of the last laps, Hamilton was clearly faster than Vettel. It's only speculation how close he would've come without that mistake and penalty, but in my opinion, Vettel did a mistake which could've easily cost him that position on any other track. He did a mistake and lost the position at the end due to that mistake. No mistake and he would've had the chance to win. So P2 was deserved.
But, the question was not if it's deserved or not but if it's fair. Clearly: No!
Keep in mind that the stewards just followed the rulebook. The rulebook clarifies the penalty applied for that case. It is not the Stewards fault that the rules are like that, neither is it Mercedes' or even Hamilton's fault. People stating, that Mercedes paid the FIA or it's just Formula Mercedes is just bullshit. There are rules, the rules have been followed, nontheless the rules are crap. I really think the rules need a rework to avoid these kind of situations, but at the current state, with the current rules, everything was correct.
Conclusion: The rules are bullshit, but at the end Vettel lost the position due to his own mistake, that's why I voted for "yes".
First of all, try to judge it as emotionless and neutral as possible. I know after a race all emotions are heated up, bit I will try to do it as neutral as possible.
So, build up: Vettel did a mistake. That's a fact and you can't deny that. To correct it, he had no other option than going back on the racing line to save it. He was aware that Hamilton was there and tried everything to avoid it. But if we consider the pace of the last laps, Hamilton was clearly faster than Vettel. It's only speculation how close he would've come without that mistake and penalty, but in my opinion, Vettel did a mistake which could've easily cost him that position on any other track. He did a mistake and lost the position at the end due to that mistake. No mistake and he would've had the chance to win. So P2 was deserved.
But, the question was not if it's deserved or not but if it's fair. Clearly: No!
Keep in mind that the stewards just followed the rulebook. The rulebook clarifies the penalty applied for that case. It is not the Stewards fault that the rules are like that, neither is it Mercedes' or even Hamilton's fault. People stating, that Mercedes paid the FIA or it's just Formula Mercedes is just bullshit. There are rules, the rules have been followed, nontheless the rules are crap. I really think the rules need a rework to avoid these kind of situations, but at the current state, with the current rules, everything was correct.
Conclusion: The rules are bullshit, but at the end Vettel lost the position due to his own mistake, that's why I voted for "yes".
Analise the data? LOL. They did no such thing, they just looked at the replay the same as you and me.
But he was obliged to avoid obstructing other drivers on the racing line.
Vettel said it best: « Where was I supposed to go? »
Ted Kravitz pointed out, correctly, that there is a culture of over regulation in F1 today. In my opinion, there should be a penalty when a driver makes a deliberate attempt at jeopardizing the race or safety of another driver. In this case, there was never any danger to Hamilton, he was far away to avoid Vettel. Also, there was nothing Vettel could have done once he was on the grass to correct his trajectory. It was a mistake, not a deliberate attempt at blocking or hitting Hamilton. So, Vettel and Ferrari were robbed of a win, pure and simple. Too bad, it was shaping up to be a close finish, for once.
Ted Kravitz pointed out, correctly, that there is a culture of over regulation in F1 today. In my opinion, there should be a penalty when a driver makes a deliberate attempt at jeopardizing the race or safety of another driver. In this case, there was never any danger to Hamilton, he was far away to avoid Vettel. Also, there was nothing Vettel could have done once he was on the grass to correct his trajectory. It was a mistake, not a deliberate attempt at blocking or hitting Hamilton. So, Vettel and Ferrari were robbed of a win, pure and simple. Too bad, it was shaping up to be a close finish, for once.
I think the biggest problem is how long it took to reach a decision. If they had said Vettel was at fault right away he might have had the opportunity to give the position up and tried to fight back. Or Hamilton would have been able to fight to the finish. Either way, they ruined what could have been a great race.
No, rejoining the track unsafely after leaving it is.
Hard racing doesn't usually take place on grass.
Not in F1 anyway.
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