- To clarify that point, 'Ground Effects' were more or less banned as mentioned due to political pressure from the Grandee Teams (insert Ferrari) as it was the only way of reining in the (mostly) Cosworth teams. However (there's always one) the flat bottom regulation didn't go far enough as I mentioned above. IMHO opinion at the time and today the cars should have had no aero from the tip of the nose to very end of the tail. The supposed rationale for banning ground effects was the fear that a car could lose suction leading to a catastrophic stability failure likely to send the car into the air and into a spectator area. Jochen Mass did indeed have that experience in 1982 at Paul Ricard, luckily without any spectators in his LZ. The drivers were vocal about the high G forces generated through corners knocking them around, as well as the extremely hard ride leading to some spinal damage. Yes, teams have invested far to much money in wind tunnels and aerodynamics, they should welcome mandatory aero restrictions as a money saving measure.
F1 2021 Rules - More Information Released
- Thread starter Paul Jeffrey
- Start date
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- f1 formula one grand prix
Matheus Machado
Talking Door Racing
Removing tire blankets to reduce costs and basically creating very bad outlaps.
Way to go..
Way to go..
I absolutely detest DRS. Make me laugh when they catch up and overtake with DRS open and the com starts racing how great of a move it was.
Indycar certainly makes for a good case-study on downforce changes as the improvement on racing, esp road courses, was huge in 2018. (Though we shouldn't take it all as prescriptive for what other series should do)
They increased the downforce from the floor a bit, but the biggest change was from drastically reducing the downforce from the wings. The floor went from producing 47% of the total downforce to 66%, but total downforce was reduced by 20% because of the wing changes.
The improvement in racing action in Indycar isn't just from less reliance on wings vs floor and being able to follow closely. It is also from the reduced total downforce. Lower downforce produces longer braking zones that rely more on driver skill, which creates opportunities for overtaking. Lower downforce means less grip out of the corners and more reliance on good throttle touch, which creates opportunities to get a better run on the driver ahead. And it is all more visually appealing and exciting because we have visual feedback that the cars are difficult to drive when we see them dance under braking, get loose in corners, squirm out of the corners.
F1 knows this already. Many years ago the "Overtaking Working Group" wanted to reduce total downforce by 50%! I've heard people from F1 teams repeat this desire in interviews even recently. But downforce reduction doesn't seem to be a part of this 2021 F1 plan. It appears that they really want to keep the spectacle of high cornering speeds, while somehow improving overtaking. They're trying to find a way to have their cake and eat it too. But in my opinion, braking zones and acceleration zones are really important for overtaking and that only comes from reducing downforce and increasing the differential between cornering speeds and straightline speeds
They increased the downforce from the floor a bit, but the biggest change was from drastically reducing the downforce from the wings. The floor went from producing 47% of the total downforce to 66%, but total downforce was reduced by 20% because of the wing changes.
The improvement in racing action in Indycar isn't just from less reliance on wings vs floor and being able to follow closely. It is also from the reduced total downforce. Lower downforce produces longer braking zones that rely more on driver skill, which creates opportunities for overtaking. Lower downforce means less grip out of the corners and more reliance on good throttle touch, which creates opportunities to get a better run on the driver ahead. And it is all more visually appealing and exciting because we have visual feedback that the cars are difficult to drive when we see them dance under braking, get loose in corners, squirm out of the corners.
F1 knows this already. Many years ago the "Overtaking Working Group" wanted to reduce total downforce by 50%! I've heard people from F1 teams repeat this desire in interviews even recently. But downforce reduction doesn't seem to be a part of this 2021 F1 plan. It appears that they really want to keep the spectacle of high cornering speeds, while somehow improving overtaking. They're trying to find a way to have their cake and eat it too. But in my opinion, braking zones and acceleration zones are really important for overtaking and that only comes from reducing downforce and increasing the differential between cornering speeds and straightline speeds
MoerasGrizzly
Premium
I think current F1 does not have TC nor ABS. Drivers also need to take care of tons of configurations. What kind of aids can be removed on the top of what we have right now? Maybe two brake pedals so the drivers can adjust the brake bias turn-by-turn?
Two brake pedals would be cool
I think the current issue is that teams have been a bit cheeky with ERS deployment and fuel mapping.
In all honesty i really like these new rules. Especially the return of ground effect cars is great. However, i hope that the new cars won't be as dangerous as the ones back in the 80's.
"We do aim for the final product to be aesthetically pleasing" With a halo? LOOOL
Halo is ugly xDD
step in the right direction, but will it be enough to get me back interested in watching F1 all year?
Personally I'd like to see a radical "draft" system, where the team that finishes last gets first pick of the drivers and so on and the top team gets to go last. Then we'd see who's best and how much the equipment really means. Yeah I know it's a pipe dream and has about as much chance of happening as a remoaner liking Trump.
Personally I'd like to see a radical "draft" system, where the team that finishes last gets first pick of the drivers and so on and the top team gets to go last. Then we'd see who's best and how much the equipment really means. Yeah I know it's a pipe dream and has about as much chance of happening as a remoaner liking Trump.
The current cars are incredible machines, however a change would be good for F1.
No doubt that the Brawn will do a superb job of making 2021 better and more competitive.
No doubt that the Brawn will do a superb job of making 2021 better and more competitive.
I am only brainstorming here, but this would be an interesting experiment IMO: what if, for 2020, IndyCar kept everything exactly as-is, but did something in the neighborhood of a 3.0L naturally aspirated V8 for the engine? With the delete of the turbos, that kind of engine I would imagine is close to fitting in the existing chassis.
I'm wondering what the fan reaction would be. My assumption is it would be quite positive. The thought of seeing open wheelers literally screaming around the track again would be pretty nice, and no one is looking at IndyCar as being some standard bearer for automotive tech anyways, so why not just do it?
I'm wondering what the fan reaction would be. My assumption is it would be quite positive. The thought of seeing open wheelers literally screaming around the track again would be pretty nice, and no one is looking at IndyCar as being some standard bearer for automotive tech anyways, so why not just do it?
I would love V8s too, but the turbo V6 formula is important to keep Chevy and Honda involved.
They are at least going to increase displacement and gain 200 more horsepower in 2021
Totally understood and not trying to be confrontational, just brainstorming and playing devil's advocate a little: surely SOMEONE would be willing to build that kind of engine, right?
Being realistic, Honda/Chevy are probably providing some kind of support for the series beyond just shipping out engine crates so it would be unwise to chase them off, but surely you could find someone who would work with you.
I mean, who builds the NASCAR engines? I genuinely do not know, but those things are absolute dinosaurs in terms of contemporary auto tech, but we still see a whole 30+ car field of them every weekend.
haha, you wish!
I was really thinking that exact same thing when I first saw the image.
An old Indycar...at that.
Sounds like high deg tires are gone for 2021 - good riddance.
"We know the fans enjoy pitstops" - umm...we do? Two second pit stops are fun, until you've seen a handful of them and they all look the same. You know when I did care about pitstops? When we had refuelling (like we do in IndyCar) and pitstops felt like a legitimate, organic part of strategy.
It defies belief that IndyCar, with literally a fraction of the budget of F1, has figured out how to safely do refuelling but F1 refuses to even try.
"We know the fans enjoy pitstops" - umm...we do? Two second pit stops are fun, until you've seen a handful of them and they all look the same. You know when I did care about pitstops? When we had refuelling (like we do in IndyCar) and pitstops felt like a legitimate, organic part of strategy.
It defies belief that IndyCar, with literally a fraction of the budget of F1, has figured out how to safely do refuelling but F1 refuses to even try.
The brake paddle idea is from our neighbor, motorcycle racing. Bikes have right hand paddle for front brake and right foot paddle for rear brake. So that is TRUE brake bias adjustment. Also on the straight you keep your heads down to reduce drag, which is TRUE DRS.Two brake pedals would be cool
I think the current issue is that teams have been a bit cheeky with ERS deployment and fuel mapping.
As for the issues you mentioned, I guess that should be allowed. Currently the ERS is just a button so either you activate it or not. You have to change the mapping to decide the energy output when pressing the button. If that is to be removed then ERS will have to be a analog liver or paddle... Energy output varies depends how much you pulls the liver/paddle....Imagine the hassle.
As for fuel mapping, that is pretty common among all the motorsports. Since refueling is not allowed, fuel mapping is part of the strategy. If that is removed, imagine something like drivers need to hold 90% throttle on straight in order to achieve the same effect as "lean" fuel mapping.
The brake paddle idea is from our neighbor, motorcycle racing. Bikes have right hand paddle for front brake and right foot paddle for rear brake. So that is TRUE brake bias adjustment. Also on the straight you keep your heads down to reduce drag, which is TRUE DRS.
As for the issues you mentioned, I guess that should be allowed. Currently the ERS is just a button so either you activate it or not. You have to change the mapping to decide the energy output when pressing the button. If that is to be removed then ERS will have to be a analog liver or paddle... Energy output varies depends how much you pulls the liver/paddle....Imagine the hassle.
As for fuel mapping, that is pretty common among all the motorsports. Since refueling is not allowed, fuel mapping is part of the strategy. If that is removed, imagine something like drivers need to hold 90% throttle on straight in order to achieve the same effect as "lean" fuel mapping.
As for the issues you mentioned, I guess that should be allowed. Currently the ERS is just a button so either you activate it or not. You have to change the mapping to decide the energy output when pressing the button. If that is to be removed then ERS will have to be a analog liver or paddle... Energy output varies depends how much you pulls the liver/paddle....Imagine the hassle.
As for fuel mapping, that is pretty common among all the motorsports. Since refueling is not allowed, fuel mapping is part of the strategy. If that is removed, imagine something like drivers need to hold 90% throttle on straight in order to achieve the same effect as "lean" fuel mapping.
KERS was a manual on/off button. ERS in the new hybrid era is automatically deployed by the ECU based on the car's location on the circuit. What the driver can currently control is just the deployment mode
Yeah I know that. It is Energy Recovery System after all. So KERS is part of the ERS system. That is what I mean by the analog paddle stuff if I caused any confusion. If the team cannot deploy the ERS plan for the specific track, then the driver has to manually adjust every aspect of it, where a button and mode selection won't be enough. That would be insane.
