Exploding physics with stiff suspensions

[Associat0r]

So I just tried the RSR Dallara F3 which is supposed to have physics from real data.
But when I increase the rear wheel rates in combination with high fast rebound dampers in the garage, the physics engine sadly explodes.
https://i.gyazo.com/c9b4289203f11227aefdc7754ae950f3.mp4

EDIT: See here on how to reproduce it http://www.racedepartment.com/threads/exploding-physics-with-stiff-suspensions.123651/#post-2269476

 

[Associat0r]

Well since the last thread got closed before I as the OP could respond to Andrea full of personal attacks by certain figures and taking things out of context, which is majorly insulting, I am forced to make a new thread.

First of all, the necessary reduction of more than 25% reduction in ARB stiffness range from real world values refers to the FR3.5, which is a major issue.

It was an issue regarding ARBs, and what would happen is that the car would crash and fly like in that video, when using high settings.

There has also been a reduction in global damping, all of which was totally taken out of context with constant personal attacks towards me by certain figures with personal vendettas, which should be dealt with.

Anyway, back to the topic, I looked at the real Dallara 312 manual and it looked like the units in your Force/Velocity graph were mixed up which was confusing, m/s vs mm/s and N being an order of magnitude scaled down, but when your data is graphed it looks to be in the ballpark.

http://www.euroformulaopen.net/cont..._OWNERS_MANUAL_Version_2_15__150414_APROB.pdf

I hope the mods can at least merge this with the former thread and remove the personal attacks.

 

[Associat0r]

In my initially closed thread Andrea explained to me that he forgot to set the min/max settings for the dampers, so I had to make a new thread to reply and that got closed too.
But thinking about it some more and looking at the data, revealed that it has min/max settings set and I'm convinced that the intention was to give us a full range of damper valving options as commonly used over a season by real race teams, instead of just one Spa damper valving, after it sadly came to light that AC can't handle the stiffer options.

The description of this mod also mentions this

- Setup screen based purely on real values. Real gear ratios, wings modifications, suspension/damper settings, min/max values adjusted to real values.

The 1.1 changelog of the RSR mod mentioned this fix

- fixed rear left fast rebound min/max value in the setup

It went from the softer: 769 - 7769 Ns/m to the stiffer: 638 - 12638 Ns/m

If you look at the Koni damper manuals for the 2812 series and the 2612 series , you can see there are a lot of options within the initial min/max range and with this workaround we're going to be stuck to only one valving option.
Note that Andrea's graph mixes up mm/s with m/s and N with daN (decanewton).

Now another issue are the wheel rates ranges.
Front: 56 - 196 N/mm
Rear: 48 - 162 N/mm

If this Spa only workaround is going to be implemented, the wheel rates min/max values also need to be reduced, or else the car wouldn't have the proper damping proportionally, since the Spa damper valving is normally used with much lower wheel rates.

Let's have a honest civilized discussion on this matter without personal attacks.

 

[LilSki]

Why don't you wait until tomorrow to see if something got fixed. If not then there is something to talk about. To talk about a version of the sim that will be superceded in 24 hours is pointless.

 

[RMR1]

In my initially closed thread @Andrea Lojelo explained to me that he forgot to set the min/max settings for the dampers, so I had to make a new thread to reply and that got closed too.
But thinking about it some more and looking at the data, revealed that it has min/max settings set and I'm convinced that the intention was to give us a full range of valving options as commonly used over a season by real race teams, instead of just one Spa damper valving, after it sadly came to light that AC can't handle the stiffer options.

The description of this mod also mentions this


The 1.1 changelog of the RSR mod mentioned this fix

It went from the softer: 769 - 7769 Ns/m
to the stiffer: 638 - 12638 Ns/m

If you look at the Koni damper manuals for the 2812 series and the 2612 series , you can see there are a lot of options within the initial min/max range and with this workaround we're going to be stuck to only one valving option.
Note that Andrea's graph mixes up mm/s with m/s and N with daN (decanewton).

Now another issue are the wheel rates ranges.
Front: 56 - 196 N/mm
Rear: 48 - 162 N/mm

If this Spa only workaround is going to be implemented, the wheel rates min/max values also need to be reduced, or else the car wouldn't have the proper damping proportionally, since the Spa damper valving is normally used with much lower wheel rates.

Let's have a honest civilized discussion on this matter without personal attacks.

For shure, your inputs would be taken in to account.
But look at it in a realistic way, all you stated until now was soon invalidated.
Take your time, and validate your stuff before posting.

 

[AndrewBo]

Okay, the last sentence:
*Let's have a honest civilized discussion on this matter without personal attacks*
saved this Thread from being ( getting ?? ) closed again....for the moment.

 

[Brandon Wright]

Why don't you wait until tomorrow to see if something got fixed. If not then there is something to talk about. To talk about a version of the sim that will be superceded in 24 hours is pointless.

Not even that though, he's talking about a mod car that had an error in it and the mod creator acknowledged the mistake he had made and said he would fix it in the next update of the car. Not sure why it needs to continue to be discussed outside of the thread for the mod.

 

[ZethGAF]

Not even that though, he's talking about a mod car that had an error in it and the mod creator acknowledged the mistake he had made and said he would fix it in the next update of the car. Not sure why it needs to continue to be discussed outside of the thread for the mod.

It needs to be discussed obviously - this is a serious and fundamental failure of the platform as a simulation. And of course anyone who disagrees is a paid marketer. I doubt there is anything that will satisfy OP. Mod author already clarified - I guess he could come back, concede defeat, and declare AC has zero simulation value?

 

[Eero o.]

Are you trying to say that @Andrea Lojelo was blatantly lying?

 

[RMR1]

Are you trying to say that @Andrea Lojelo was blatantly lying?

Pls elaborate on this.

 

[Bram Hengeveld]

@Associat0r when a thread is closed for a good reason you don't need to start a new one for the same topic. As outlined before one simple PM to the mod maker should have been sufficient.

Threads merged and cleaned up and let's keep that way.