Downtown Detroit? What a joke!

[davehenrie]

I just watched highlights of the IMSA race and Indycar Qualifying at Detroit. What a disaster that track surface is. Bumps all over the place especially in braking zones....very dangerous...and these weren't bumps built up over time by heavy braking but heaves in the road surface due to very shoddy construction and maintenance. I can't believe they left Belle Isle for that concrete canyonaster. And did I hear that correctly? only 7 turns?

 

[J.J.McClure]

I also saw the race because John Carpenter is filming "The Fog" on the Nordschleife.
Seriously.
These prototypes are big. Really big.
The race track is as narrow as the nozzle of a spray paint can. And then there's a multi-class race.
Pure spectacle. That's what I want to see as a TV viewer.
The whining fanny pack wearers who call themselves Formula One drivers should drive there.
In comparison, this modern, neutered course in Monaco is a Hermann Tilke race track.
For the highly paid F1 drivers, a brown racing line would appear on the streets and they would have to spend several thousand hours with a therapist after the race.
The video recordings from the cockpit are spectacular.

 

[davehenrie]

I also saw the race because John Carpenter is filming "The Fog" on the Nordschleife.
Seriously.
These prototypes are big. Really big.
The race track is as narrow as the nozzle of a spray paint can. And then there's a multi-class race.
Pure spectacle. That's what I want to see as a TV viewer.
The whining fanny pack wearers who call themselves Formula One drivers should drive there.
In comparison, this modern, neutered course in Monaco is a Hermann Tilke race track.
For the highly paid F1 drivers, a brown racing line would appear on the streets and they would have to spend several thousand hours with a therapist after the race.
The video recordings from the cockpit are spectacular.

I agree about Tilke F1 tracks. Glass Smooth, blvd wide, soulless. But the downtown Detroit circuit has no business hosting GTP cars. Belle Isle, like VIR, is undulating, bumpy, narrow and full of character and shows what a racing circuit should be.

 

[jgf]

If they want bumps, return to Sebring; bumpy as hell but with history and class. And great for spectators (something no street circuit can claim).

 

[davehenrie]

The problem with the Detroit surface, is that much of it is comprised of Concrete(like Sebring) laid down in rectangles. Each rectangle settles and cups so that every joint becomes a ski jump. Cities(especially northern climate cities) use concrete to prevent potholes. All well and good for a slow daily commute to work, but Jeez LOOOUISE!. Not suitable for modern racers.

 

[Eric Rowland]

seems they never learn ...

 

[davehenrie]

seems they never learn ...

after the Champcar/Indycar split, the CART league tried to add many city circuits. Almost all had issues that weren't discovered until the Champcars actually drove there. Railroad track crossings, Manhole covers, temporary chicanes added after practice, sometimes even after qualifying... Cities hosting racing events downtown have to make a huge financial commitment to provide a relatively safe and open racing enviroment. Very few do.

 

[jgf]

Cities hosting racing events downtown have to make a huge financial commitment to provide a relatively safe and open racing enviroment. Very few do.

Usually they start barricading the streets at least a week before the event, a major disruption to downtown traffic, business, and mercantile concerns. Then there are barricades for the circuit itself, grandstands, food courts, restrooms, first aid stations, etc., snaking power lines and water lines all over the place. The logistics of hauling all that downtown, plus cranes to place barricades; arranging access for media and emergency vehicles ... it is a nightmare.

Columbus tired of it after four years, essentially telling the promoters they were welcome to race here again ...as long as they (the promoters) paid for everything.

Remember When Downtown Was Transformed Into A Racetrack? A Look Back At The Columbus 500

Can you imagine cars going 170 mph around City Hall? Take a look back at the Columbus 500.

www.columbusnavigator.com

 

[davehenrie]

My current home town, Spokane Washington, (hosted EXPO74 for you older folks) [Home of Gonzaga for those who follow College Mens Basketball.] They tried to host a street circuit with the hope of attracting Nascar, back, I think, in the early 80's. They had the NW equivalent of the Xfinity Series headlining a mixed group of smaller open wheeler and tin tops. It only lasted a couple of years, if I recall, it WAS fun to drive the circuit the day after the race. One of the problems was lack of volunteers to tear down all the concrete barriers and grandstands. The 2nd year it took over a week to get most of the walls etc put away when they were supposed to have it done within 24hrs. Breach of contract, end of the race.
Then the County government purchased a combined dragstrip, small oval and road course just outside of town from the previous owner who had lost a tax case and couldn't keep the place up. The County put over a Million $$ into refurbishing the place, opening day an over eager Air Force member rolled his Porsche on the road course and killed himself. END of that project. The track is now owned by an Indian Casino located nearby and mainly caters only to drag racing events. Qlispe Raceway.

 

[Durge Driven]

This pales compared to BTCC.

At Thruxton they stuck a immoveable object in the direct path of cars cutting the chicane, which yeah ended up destroying a car was just using the normal run off.

Then last year same track they have cars parked level with fence like a extra barrier at last chicane.
Marshalls were standing between the cars and track, no fence no cover whatsoever and they looking about everywhere like they spectators.
If a car had got a tank slapper out of first part of chicane it could easy slide that far or worse a open wheeler getting flung in air.

Insane.

This year they did not stand there but left the cars as the were.
Then you see a corner marshal when race was green outside the Armco and was looking for something, like he dropped a phone, with his back to the race bending over.

I have never anything like that in modern Indy.

 

[DSW6]

My current home town, Spokane Washington, (hosted EXPO74 for you older folks) [Home of Gonzaga for those who follow College Mens Basketball.] They tried to host a street circuit with the hope of attracting Nascar, back, I think, in the early 80's. They had the NW equivalent of the Xfinity Series headlining a mixed group of smaller open wheeler and tin tops. It only lasted a couple of years, if I recall, it WAS fun to drive the circuit the day after the race. One of the problems was lack of volunteers to tear down all the concrete barriers and grandstands. The 2nd year it took over a week to get most of the walls etc put away when they were supposed to have it done within 24hrs. Breach of contract, end of the race.
Then the County government purchased a combined dragstrip, small oval and road course just outside of town from the previous owner who had lost a tax case and couldn't keep the place up. The County put over a Million $$ into refurbishing the place, opening day an over eager Air Force member rolled his Porsche on the road course and killed himself. END of that project. The track is now owned by an Indian Casino located nearby and mainly caters only to drag racing events. Qlispe Raceway.

I raced at Spokane road course in PRO3 with ICSCC for 5-6 years, including once under new ownership. I loved the track, bumps, brush fire interruptions, and all. The event organizers and volunteers always did an amazing job putting on great events and from what I've heard since, this hasn't changed. The unfortunate thing imo is that many amateur racers now generally have a lot of disposable income and complain about the lack of facilities and a long tow, even if they have a luxury motorhome and plenty of vacation. That's just my experience and I simply didn't get it, as I did my racing on a tight budget and was more than happy to rough it and sleep in my trailer all weekend in exchange for racing at an interesting track (Oregon Raceway Park comes to mind...Oh boy).

 

[tpfitz]

I believe John Hindhaugh said that they aren't racing in Belle anymore because they have remodeled a bunch of stuff and it has become a resort and the owners don't want to shut the whole place down for a week for a race but who knows if that is true.

 

[jgf]

many amateur racers now generally have a lot of disposable income and complain about the lack of facilities and a long tow, even if they have a luxury motorhome

Yet better off than the professional racers of bygone days

 

[davehenrie]

Yet better off than the professional racers of bygone days

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I've got a Can-Am book which has a photo of the Official Team Mclaren cars being towed by a pickup and an open trailer all the way to Edmonton Alberta. Then there were the Chaparrals with their fancy Aluminium engines that kept leaking like an Ebola patient. They could run on a dyno at the engine builders factory for hours, but get to the track and kablooie! Turns out the transport on a trailer to the tracks was causing so much vibration the engines practically disassembled themselves enroute. Ah the good ol days!

 

[Eric Rowland]