Do You Have This Combo? Behringer Inuke DSP Amplifier & Buttkicker?

[Mr Latte]

BUTTKICKER BOTTOMING / PISTON PANG / THERMAL CUT OFF ?

Working Solution!

Posting this thread to help members that may have issues with the piston bottoming and producing the clack or pang sound, I am specifically looking for people that own the below combinations for either audio or Simvibe tactile usage.

Testing has been conducted to find a solution to this long-term and widespread issue. Drawbacks are found with these units if used with traditional/standard amplifiers due to in part how they operate. If you are interested please share in taking part to confirm if the solution also works for you?

These are the recommended amplifiers:

Behringer Inuke DSP Amplifiers:
DSP 1000
DSP 3000
DSP 6000

Using with:
Buttkicker Mini LFE
Buttkicker Mini LFE SE
Buttkicker Mini Concert
Buttkicker Gamer Shaker/Clamp

 

[Mr Latte]

I couldn't get SimX working so I tried the transducers using the Next Level Racing Motion Platform software. It's fairly basic but works pretty good just to quickly test them in game.

Both transducers seem to be working although there's quite a fine line betweem feeling them good and having them and/or the amp clip. It's a little strange as both the amp (NX3000D) and the BKA & CS Plat are supposed to be way more powerful than a BK Gamer. The CS Plat does a weird clicking noise if I put it to high even though it's the Plat model which is extremely expensive and supposed to be ablw to output tons of feedback.

I don't know. Compared to using a single BK Gamer 2 last year, using a CS Plat and BKA has been a little underwhelming.

I wonder if the SimLab P1 and aluminum profile rigs in general just aren't suited to tactile. Isn't wood a much better material for vibrations?

Clearly you still do not have these configured well yet. On the foums somewhere in a persons thread I covered all the screens for the DSP software. They had just bought a NX DSP amp and I went through different settings.
You can adjust the input/output settings and if you want to share images of your rig but this thread isnt the place to do this,

It would be better to start a thread on your own installation and journey on this to help others easily find it again. Show us how you have the units installed and we can go over the whole software and installation process.

 

[dwightyone]

Tried my gamer 2 with the next level v3 tactile software - terrible. I can tell its picking up on the telemetry of PC2 but it just sorta buzzes more than anything - unless I'm doing something terribly wrong. The gamer and simhub shakeit soooo much better but shakeit does give me a little stutter on some of the tracks on PC2 - corners where the tactile telemetry comes into effect.

 

[Spinelli]

Clearly you still do not have these configured well yet. On the foums somewhere in a persons thread I covered all the screens for the DSP software. They had just bought a NX DSP amp and I went through different settings.
You can adjust the input/output settings and if you want to share images of your rig but this thread isnt the place to do this,

It would be better to start a thread on your own installation and journey on this to help others easily find it again. Show us how you have the units installed and we can go over the whole software and installation process.

Great, thanx Mr. Latte, I'll start my own thread when I try them again in a day or so.

Tried my gamer 2 with the next level v3 tactile software - terrible. I can tell its picking up on the telemetry of PC2 but it just sorta buzzes more than anything - unless I'm doing something terribly wrong. The gamer and simhub shakeit soooo much better but shakeit does give me a little stutter on some of the tracks on PC2 - corners where the tactile telemetry comes into effect.

This gives me hope again I was wondering why my BK Gamer 2 last year felt so good yet I was so underwhelmed a few days ago using a BK Adv. and a very expensive CS TST429 Plat. I was using the NLR MP tactile software with the BK.A & CS.TST429 rather than the software I was using with the BK.G2. After hearing your experience, I'm confident there's nothing wrong with my setup/hardware and it's just the software I was using.

 

[Mr Latte]

Great, thanx Mr. Latte, I'll start my own thread when I try them again in a day or so.

This gives me hope again I was wondering why my BK Gamer 2 last year felt so good yet I was so underwhelmed a few days ago using a BK Adv. and a very expensive CS TST429 Plat. I was using the NLR MP tactile software with the BK.A & CS.TST429 rather than the software I was using with the BK.G2. After hearing your experience, I'm confident there's nothing wrong with my setup/hardware and it's just the software I was using.

Plenty of people have good tactile with 8020. Certainly, if you come up with good isolation for the seat and pedal regions this then can de-couple them from the main rig. That will help improve and maintain the energy in those sections. The general thread had posts from people showing some rather interesting or more substantial isolators (used in professional applications/industries) not just your typical or basic options found on ebay. You have to take into account the level of hardware being used as to what level of isolation/vibration management is implemented.

The TST 429 is more about detail and fidelity, it's mid-upper bass is superb. Its one of the best units that can enhance music (if properly used). Although the Advance kinda gives a nice low-end it still is lacking regards the lowest frequencies, yet you should be getting a great improvement over a BK Gamer.

 

[Spinelli]

Even with not the greatest mounting and no isolators I am now getting much better results from the transducers. When I plugged the transducers into my dedicated soundcard's output instead of my onboard motherboard's, I suddenly get lots of power and with no clipping noises. I barely raise the volume dial on my NX3000D amp beyond 9:00 o'clock and 10:00 or 11:00 for my CS TST429 and BKA respectively. That's much more like what I was expecting; they now hit hard and clean with relatively low amp-gain settings.

Using the onboard motherboard's outputs, I was having to crank the amp to around 1:00 o'clock (TST429) and 3:00 o'clock (BKA) just to get half the power out of them as I do now; that also led to easy clipping on the BKA and a weird ticking noise on the TST429.

I wonder if I'm the only one who experienced such a poor and unacceptable performance using the motherboard onboard's outputs. I thought the amp would, by far, be the main thing dictating the output power of the transducers rather than the soundcard/motherboard.

 

[The Iron Wolf]

Even with not the greatest mounting and no isolators I am now getting much better results from the transducers. When I plugged the transducers into my dedicated soundcard's output instead of my onboard motherboard's, I suddenly get lots of power and with no clipping noises. I barely raise the volume dial on my NX3000D amp beyond 9:00 o'clock and 10:00 or 11:00 for my CS TST429 and BKA respectively. That's much more like what I was expecting; they now hit hard and clean with relatively low amp-gain settings.

Using the onboard motherboard's outputs, I was having to crank the amp to around 1:00 o'clock (TST429) and 3:00 o'clock (BKA) just to get half the power out of them as I do now; that also led to easy clipping on the BKA and a weird ticking noise on the TST429.

I wonder if I'm the only one who experienced such a poor and unacceptable performance using the motherboard onboard's outputs. I thought the amp would, by far, be the main thing dictating the output power of the transducers rather than the soundcard/motherboard.

I noticed that my onboard Creative Recon3Di is much quieter at 100% volume than Creative EA-5 card. Thanks for sharing the info that high amp gain causes clicking issues, this is interesting to learn.

 

[RCHeliguy]

Plenty of people have good tactile with 8020. Certainly, if you come up with good isolation for the seat and pedal regions this then can de-couple them from the main rig. That will help improve and maintain the energy in those sections.

Absolutely. My Sim-Lab P1 is allowing me to get some very good "to me" tactile response from 4 x $50 Aura Pros and a $100 DIY amplifier using SimHub. How the transducers are mounted and how the software is configured in terms of leveraging resonance frequencies are critical.

One thing that is interesting to me is that I've read that you are not supposed to mount Aura's vertically or inverted and I've done both for extended periods. Inverted for nearly 2 years and vertically for the last 9-10 months and they have run flawlessly.

 

[The Iron Wolf]

Absolutely. My Sim-Lab P1 is allowing me to get some very good "to me" tactile response from 4 x $50 Aura Pros and a $100 DIY amplifier using SimHub. How the transducers are mounted and how the software is configured in terms of leveraging resonance frequencies are critical.

One thing that is interesting to me is that I've read that you are not supposed to mount Aura's vertically or inverted and I've done both for extended periods. Inverted for nearly 2 years and vertically for the last 9-10 months and they have run flawlessly.

Could you elaborate a bit on strategy for detecting and dealing with resonance?

 

[RCHeliguy]

Could you elaborate a bit on strategy for detecting and dealing with resonance?

That's a seat of the pants thing. Each transducer has its own resonance frequency, but after you couple it with a structure you might find that another frequency actually gives you a stronger signal that you feel more.

Once you have that and depending on the range of your transducers. My Auras are very limited in terms of frequency range you have end points to work within.

So for my lumpy idle in SimHub I'm not using the strongest value it has and I'm using a chunk of white noise that varies around a center point.

For the shift kick on the seat transducer while sitting in the seat I tested it with the test link in SimHub. I adjusted the frequency until I felt a solid kick in the seat of my pants, then I adjusted the length of the pulse and adjusted the volume down to a level that wasn't over the top. So I tried to optimize how something felt and then dialed it back a bit.

I don't claim to be an expert and I certainly haven't put in the time Mr. Latte and others have to really understand things. I took an empirical approach within the time I wanted to spend playing with everything.

 

[The Iron Wolf]

That's a seat of the pants thing. Each transducer has its own resonance frequency, but after you couple it with a structure you might find that another frequency actually gives you a stronger signal that you feel more.

Once you have that and depending on the range of your transducers. My Auras are very limited in terms of frequency range you have end points to work within.

So for my lumpy idle in SimHub I'm not using the strongest value it has and I'm using a chunk of white noise that varies around a center point.

For the shift kick on the seat transducer while sitting in the seat I tested it with the test link in SimHub. I adjusted the frequency until I felt a solid kick in the seat of my pants, then I adjusted the length of the pulse and adjusted the volume down to a level that wasn't over the top. So I tried to optimize how something felt and then dialed it back a bit.

I don't claim to be an expert and I certainly haven't put in the time Mr. Latte and others have to really understand things. I took an empirical approach within the time I wanted to spend playing with everything.

It makes sense. Thanks for sharing, I noticed the stuff you describe.

My biggest priority is road vibration (because I believe due to my actuators being 8bit they simply can't transfer the tiniest details) and wheel lock/slip (which I suspect is physics limitation of the game I am playing, so I am working it around with trnasducers). Still not figured out best road vibration effect settings. Do you use that effect?

 

[RCHeliguy]

It makes sense. Thanks for sharing, I noticed the stuff you describe.

My biggest priority is road vibration (because I believe due to my actuators being 8bit they simply can't transfer the tiniest details) and wheel lock/slip (which I suspect is physics limitation of the game I am playing, so I am working it around with trnasducers). Still not figured out best road vibration effect settings. Do you use that effect?

I'm working with road vibration and wheel slip and lock effects.

Road vibration is all about immersion. I like the wheel slip and wheel lock effects fairly strong for my seat for the left and right rear tire.

For the front wheel slip and wheel lock I have things dialed back a lot more since I get most of my front wheel feel from my FFB in my SC2 Pro, so I just like road texture with some wheel lock skidding and just a bit of wheel slip since the FFB is where I feel most of that.

I have a left and right front transducer and have left and right signals, but I haven't found that I can tell which side the vibration is coming from when there are separate left wheel, right wheel effects.

 

[The Iron Wolf]

I'm working with road vibration and wheel slip and lock effects.

Road vibration is all about immersion. I like the wheel slip and wheel lock effects fairly strong for my seat for the left and right rear tire.

For the front wheel slip and wheel lock I have things dialed back a lot more since I get most of my front wheel feel from my FFB in my SC2 Pro, so I just like road texture with some wheel lock skidding and just a bit of wheel slip since the FFB is where I feel most of that.

Do you mind sharing your ShakeIt profile? I can do the same, mine is nothing fancy though.

 

[RCHeliguy]

I can, but I've been changing it around a lot since I put a fiberglass shell seat on my rig with a rear firing seat transducer vs a bottom firing seat transducer. I also just recently upgraded to the latest version of SimHub and I'm trying things out. I wasn't sure I like some of their new features, but now that I'm getting more comfortable with them, I like them better.

Give me a few more days ( especially this weekend ) and I'll see if I can get you something you can at least reference. I actually liked now my rig felt better with the car seat that had a suspended plate supporting seat cushion.

BTW my setup is only for iRacing and Dirt Rally 2.0 and it's specifically to complement my NLRv3 seat mover. I would do things differently if it were stand alone.

 

[The Iron Wolf]

I can, but I've been changing it around a lot since I put a fiberglass shell seat on my rig with a rear firing seat transducer vs a bottom firing seat transducer. I also just recently upgraded to the latest version of SimHub and I'm trying things out. I wasn't sure I like some of there new features, but now that I'm getting more comfortable with them, I like them better.

Maybe I'll ping you in a couple of months and we could exchange profiles. I am also in a process of finalizing my build, so still tweaking things

 

[JohnRule]

Absolutely. My Sim-Lab P1 is allowing me to get some very good "to me" tactile response from 4 x $50 Aura Pros and a $100 DIY amplifier using SimHub. How the transducers are mounted and how the software is configured in terms of leveraging resonance frequencies are critical.

One thing that is interesting to me is that I've read that you are not supposed to mount Aura's vertically or inverted and I've done both for extended periods. Inverted for nearly 2 years and vertically for the last 9-10 months and they have run flawlessly.

Any tips on transducer placement and/or isolation on a Simlab P1? I’m collecting parts now and am planning on mounting 4x Mini LFEs at the edges of the pedal tray and on the seat rails for a start, then putting the whole rig up on industrial type vibration isolators.

 

[Mr Latte]

Guys it would be best to start a thread on 8020 and tactile installations to help keep it all together.
This thread has nothing to do with it.

 

[JohnRule]

Whoops, I’m on mobile and I thought this was the other tactile thread.

Bringing it back on topic then, I have two NX1000D amps showing up today and am excited for the tuning capabilities that DSP will bring. Hopefully I can tweak out any unwanted resonance.

 

[The Iron Wolf]

So after a year with BK Mini and half a year with full size LFE, I'd like to share something I wish I found on this thread first time I seen it.

Even if your amp does not include hardware EQ, Equalizer APO/Peace UI does the job of making it easier to avoid clanking on both BK Minis and full size LFE. I am attaching a few things:

* EQ settings for BK Mini (Recon3Di card)
* EQ settings for BK LFE (AE5 card)
* Screenshot explaining how to enable multiple effects in Peace UI
* SimHub profile for 8 units I use (4 BK Mini's + 4 BK LFE attached to ProSimu T1000 frame). I use it for both rF2 and R3E with no changes

wolfs_settings

MediaFire is a simple to use free service that lets you put all your photos, documents, music, and video in a single place so you can access them anywhere and share them everywhere.

www.mediafire.com

And, once again thanks to authors of this post and investigation. EQ really makes using Buttkickers easier.

 

[dwightyone]

I think I'll install APO later for the reasons you mentioned - I have a single bk gamer and bk amp and I'll try your file to see if I can listen the now and again piston slap. Thanks!

 

[The Iron Wolf]

I think I'll install APO later for the reasons you mentioned - I have a single bk gamer and bk amp and I'll try your file to see if I can listen the now and again piston slap. Thanks!

note that this is primarily to give you an idea of what's possible... I upgraded my system and as part of that Recon3Di is replaced with Realtek card, so I had to change settings, but not by much. Primary point is that APO allows to control individual frequencies on multiple devices, it is less convenient than hardware, but it is possible.