Direct drive/servo wheels

[Turk]

I'm thinking of upgrading my wheel again. At the moment I have a fanatec CSR but I'm beginning to find its limits.

I was looking at the fanatec wheel base, I've seen in places that it's basically a servo wheel?? It's probably the next step up for me and to get a working wheel it looks like it's going to cost me around €1000.

I have a fanatec wheel, pedals (CSR elite) and CSR H-shifter. I've had varying problems with all of them, the wheel has become loose and I can see that it's the way the wheel is connected to the base, essentially one screw stopping it from moving in place. I've had a load cell fail on the brakes and the replacement didn't entirely fix the problem. The gear stick has an intermittent clicking noise that sounds like somethings loose, but doesn't affect the operation of the gears. All these things make me a bit apprehensive about buying a more expensive fanatec product, but the fanatec wheel base seems like it's in another level of build quality and fanatecs support was pretty good when I contacted them.

The other wheel I'm looking at is the accuforce wheel from simexperience. This seems to be coming in around €1800 but the package looks very good, as far as I can see you essentially get the base, two wheels and software. But it's a big step up in price and I don't know that it's worth the extra money for someone who doesn't get to play as much as they like. I'm wondering is the Fanatec wheel more than enough for me? Would I appreciate the difference? Would the accuforce be overkill for my needs.

I know there's an open servo wheel project as well but the only one I could find was horribly expensive at almost twice the price of the accuforce and still requiring assembly.

Is there any chance racedepartment could do some sort of roundup of wheels? To give some idea of what the difference is, what gains there are in spending more money and what wheel is enough for different types of player.

 

[Michael Dao]

Another things if you guys are not aware, the OSW have a lot of EMI issue, good earthing is required, I know quite a few who have that issue

 

[Deleted member 197115]

Another things if you guys are not aware, the OSW have a lot of EMI issue, good earthing is required, I know quite a few who have that issue

Does AF suffer from the same fate?

 

[Michael Dao]

Does AF suffer from the same fate?

No, no problem at all for AF

Most notorious came from Denis Reimer OSW kit if you look at iRacing Forums there is 2 guys Simon Povey, Gregor Thompson, and a few more that I forgot name who did have this issue. Gregor issue is so heave that it spike the pedal reading.

Reference: http://members.iracing.com/jforum/posts/list/1425/3282974.page#8633805

But then there is one thing that I don't get about the AF, the stepper motor is made with SImX spec, it's around $300 as far as what I can read, but it's still a stepper, if you turn it super slowly you can feel the "step". A small Mige is around 20-22Nm (don't remember exactly), and it cost $300 too, and by a few guys, especially Jason Jodarski, it's day and night as the difference, but I read it as a significant improvement. Why then SimX offer the small mige then, it's beyond my little brain.

 

[kikie]

I believe I read on GTP that Fanatec is developing a DD wheel. Not sure if it is true though.

 

[Andrew Harper]

I believe I read on GTP that Fanatec is developing a DD wheel. Not sure if it is through though.

Yeah I keep reading that as well but I'm not sure if it's just rumour rather than fact.

They may have toyed with a prototype but I guess part of them would wonder why build it when the sales of the CSW2 are still so strong.

On the other hand if Fanatec did manufacture one and they could price it somewhere between the CSW2 and the AF wheel they would certainly be onto a winner.

I've been looking into taking advantage of the AF Black Friday deal myself as I would probably like a more different wheel layout to the Pro version so the button box is not really needed in my case.

Now with Leo Bodnar offering conversion kits for the Fanatec wheels so they fit the AF wheel base it does seem like a good option for me.

I guess the only bad selling point for all the DD wheels is in some cases there have been issues trying to get them to work with certain programs. Dirt Rally being the most stubborn one, although some clever people did a workaround on that.

 

[David O'Reilly]

What kind of material cost are we looking at for an OSW wheel?

Kjell, I found an all in kit with the small Mige at uk£900 incl VAT. All you need to add is a wheel and pedals.
The link is already made earlier (Sim plicity).

I too would use the Fanatec F1 rim. €229 and then £50 for the Bodnar circuit to make it work with the OSW. You then have 22 functions on your wheel.

So for me its UK £950 plus my F1 rim.
When I unboxed the F1 rim (the cheaper one not the fake carbon one) I thought someone had mistakenly sent me an actual Formula Renault 3.5 rim.
Looking at what I need to replicate it with momo or others and kits with switches bolted on is a muttiple of that price. Like maybe 5 times as much!

You might be interested to hear as I went from CSR to Clubsport V2.
I only own the F1 rim.
Its about 12 months now I guess of maybe 12 hours a week. Haven't missed a beat.

I am deliriously happy with it. Why am I even tempted? I dont even have the FFB cranked fully (the F1 rim gives stronger FFB due to lower radius and weight).
Its possibly because I'm the kid who never did assemble his own PC in the 80s. I just like the idea of bolting all that stuff together and havin 20nm on tap.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

So Fanatec wheel functioning as USB standalone. David, do you have any links to look at what is involved into conversion. Thanks in advance.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

I think this thread has all the information needed
http://www.isrtv.com/forums/topic/1...ket-quick-release-on-the-fanatec-formula-rim/

 

[Kjell Eilertsen]

Kjell, I found an all in kit with the small Mige at uk£900 incl VAT. All you need to add is a wheel and pedals.
The link is already made earlier (Sim plicity).

I too would use the Fanatec F1 rim. €229 and then £50 for the Bodnat circuit to make it work with the OSW. You then have 22 functions on your wheel.

So for me its UK £950 plus my F1 rim.
When I unboxed the F1 rim (the cheaper one not the fake carbon one) I thought someone had mistakenly sent me an actual Formula Renault 3.5 rim.
Looking at what I need to replicate it with momo or others and kits with switches bolted on is a muttiple of that price. Like maybe 5 times as much!

You might be interested to hear as I went from CSR to Clubsport V2.
I only own the F1 rim.
Its about 12 months now I guess of maybe 12 hours a week. Haven't missed a beat.

I am deliriously happy with it. Why am I even tempted? I dont even have the FFB cranked fully (the F1 rim gives stronger FFB due to lower radius and weight).
Its possibly because I'm the kid who never did assemble his own PC in the 80s. I just like the idea of bolting all that stuff together and havin 20nm on tap.

Oh I do like the quality feel of both my BMW and Formula Rim, they look expensive when staring at them in the store but imo they are worth every penny when you start comparing it to making one yourself just as you mentioned.
And while interesting that we can now use our Fanatec rims with other wheelbases, I'm in the same boat as you, I'm just so damn happy with my CSW v2 that I feel no urge to upgrade anytime soon, and I've had mine for about a year now which usually is twice as long as the "new car smell" tends to stick with me xD

 

[David O'Reilly]

So Fanatec wheel functioning as USB standalone. David, do you have any links to look at what is involved into conversion. Thanks in advance.

http://www.leobodnar.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=97&products_id=236

 

[Johand]

does anybody know what the differance is for 1x or 4x ioni?

 

[Johand]

does anybody know what the differance is for 1x or 4x ioni? on the sim-pli.city site

 

[David O'Reilly]

No

 

[Deleted member 197115]

4x can drive 4 motors and don't need brake resistor.

 

[RaceNut]

Regarding the AccuForce, SimX is going to release the new Basic AF without the button box and QR so that is another lower-cost option aside from the DIY version.

 

[David O'Reilly]

My OSW project was completed a few months ago.
I sourced the kit from Ollie at Sim plicity. It was around £900. (since then Ollie has started selling a fully assembled kit with an enclosure).
Service, Delivery, Packaging, instructions were first class.
Total spend.
Kit £900
Bodnar circuit board to make F1 rim work as a USB device. £50. (there is a cheaper option too called a teensy)
Adapter to connect rim to the Motor £50
Enclosure £25
Formula Rim I owned but allow say £200.
Total £1225.
The Job
It was fiddly and took time.
The assembly was invloved but by carefully following the instructions and double checking everything I had no issues.
The area that caused the biggest headache was the fitting of the bodnar chip to the Formula Rim. It is fiddly microscopic work. If you have no experience in soldering circuit boards make sure you watch some tutorials and learn and practice B4 you start for real. One error set me back 2 weeks and required me to do some very fine work to rebuild the Fomula PCB that I had damaged.

The other area where you are on your own is to select an enclosure and fit the bits into it.
I managed.

Summary
Keeping it breif;
Once set up correctly it has not missed a beat.
Totally satisfied. The feel and immersion are at another level. I am recovering from slides that I would never have controlled before. It feels awesome. I can select the FFB level now based not on clipping but on what I can or want to physically handle. So in the fastest of corners with the biggest of forces you are never "flat-lining" on max FFB. The smallest of details are always there.

Is it faster???
Hmmm, hard one. I dont think so... Not over a one lap quali lap but I am MUCH more consistent. Less errors. So faster over a race.
Enjoying it more. It no longer feels like a wheel trying to convey what happening but instead feels like it is what is happening moment by moment. A direct connection.
Yesterday I drove a 5 hour endurance race. 160 laps of the Nurburgring GP circuit. I had 1 spin largely due to being unsighted due to the LMP1 Cockpit on a chicane once someone had hit and removed the bollard.
The jump from a Fanatec CSW V2 to the OSW is bigger tham from Fanatec CSR to CSW V2.
I no longer have to look at my next wheel. There is no next wheel.
When you look at other products that are near £1000 it's IMO a small step to the ultimate.

PS
I run the "small Mige". I have it set at 66% power. I won't ever need 100%.
I drive RF2.

 

[Moxley6969]

Nice summary Dave, Im in the final final stages of my Simucube build. Just finished the first of 2 fana wheels im converting....pretty happy with the results to be honest. The ability to go back if needed is nice....Also not having a cable hanging from the wheel was also a nice touch.

PS yes if you dont have soldering experience the Bodnar method can be Rather intimidating and tricky. Kinda Shocking they didn't just include a cable like this method to make guys lives that much easier.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

Nice summary Dave, Im in the final final stages of my Simucube build. Just finished the first of 2 fana wheels im converting....pretty happy with the results to be honest. The ability to go back if needed is nice....Also not having a cable hanging from the wheel was also a nice touch.

PS yes if you dont have soldering experience the Bodnar method can be Rather intimidating and tricky. Kinda Shocking they didn't just include a cable like this method to make guys lives that much easier.

They do now, there is solderless board you can order, same price

 

[blanes]

I know this thread is old but I just read it now and wanted to add my 2 cents worth. I have owned an AccuForce wheel since April 2015, and race with it 3 or 4 times a week in that time. Previously I owned Logitech, Thrustmaster and Fanatec wheels since early 90's - I used to buy and sell them all the time when I got bored of one - fickle I know. Now I honestly cannot imagine ever owning another wheel, the AF is of high build quality and construction.

I have not been able to fully understand the argument that the wheel is inferior to OSW because it has a stepper motor and feels notchy. The only time I ever can feel it notchy is when I am not racing or outside of a racing title or sim and turn the wheel very slowly, then there is that slight rough or notched feeling. But when racing it is totally imperceptible and I either feel the FFB or it is smooth. The strength or torque feels more than enough and I have tried it turned up to highest settings but that is brutal and can only do a lap or two before it is too much work and fatigue sets in. Not sure if any irl race vehicle demands so much strength but you can turn it way up high if you like that and it also has a responsive mode which brings high torque forces plus exaggerated or amplified FFB effects.

I really like the versatility of the SimCommander software and being able to tweak either the in game FFB settings or use the Foundation FFB that is supplied by SimCommander using the physics output of the sim. Dirt Rally is good example of where this shines as it is vastly better than the in game FFB. It is a very fine piece of software and has received many updates over the time I used it - drives my buttkickers too.

Re stepper / servo motors Berney Villers of Simxperience has stated many times it is not an off-the-shelf stepper motor and has been specifically customised for its purpose. He offered the following explanation on the iRacing forum some time ago - "... the AccuForce is not a traditional "stepper system" and it's not a traditional "servo system". Some years ago, some pretty bright guys looked at the shortcoming of the servo, the shortcomings of the stepper and said: gee, their performance characteristics are almost polar opposites. Wouldn't it be great it we could have the best of both worlds. They created a hybrid. .. It's basically a stepper motor coupled with a very sophisticated controller that drives it as a servo. I don't think there is an official name for it yet. Some call it Intelligent Hybrid Stepping Servo, some call it hybrid servo stepper, etc. We call it the AccuForce controller."

AF wheel is a very good strong FFB wheel that is Direct Drive and all-in-one solution for those of us that don't have time or inclination to build OSW. Hopefully other DD wheels will come out and prices will get lower over time. I think the wheel is great, my personal opinion and I have no relationship or vested interest in the company, but I do think it has sometimes copped a bad wrap and some critics have never even used it but base their opinion on what others have written. That's ok but some things are very subjective and you gotta try for yourself to know for sure.

Oh and I didn't write all this to start another AF vs OSW war, there is plenty of those written elsewhere and anyone considering should buy or build whatever they like at the price that suits them.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

I am pretty sure all original participants of this thread went their ways already.
In the end I opted for OSW (Argon, Small Mige) from Joe Sullivan and can't be happier.
Top notch build, great support (not like I needed any but bugged Joe with questions a lot ). Highly recommend him as a builder for US folks.