Describe your ultimate racing game...

[GameBrain.media]

I'm not a complete racing junkie, but I've been around the block for more than a few laps & I know this will never happen. Just look at it as a thought exercise or a pub conversation among friends with a few beers in 'em...

My "BIG PICTURE" idea would start as a combo of RF1 + iRacing.

NOTE: the business guy in me believes this would give devs a reliable / stable time cycle of cost & income & user feedback & new releases + BONUS subscription model for another stream of reliable income as the model & community evolves.

OK... what I want is a $50 SIM platform / game engine, LIKE RF1 + endless free or reasonably priced mods by indy creators LIKE RF1 (not endless dev DLC which takes time away from the core platform dev mission / requires staff, etc.).

The core platform would be fully supported & tweaked for 5-10(?) years & includes an OPTION for a subscription to the devs hosted online racing & ranking system. LIKE iRACING.

The platform & developers work on a 5-10 year replacement cycle, where the current game engine gets continual updates, improvements & content (live service?) by core dev team 1, while dev team 2 (includes cross-over devs) works on the next offering.

Maybe the 5-10 year cycle is too short or too long?
- iRacing started in 2008 (2024 minus 2008 = 16 years ago).
- yes, they've updated & added features - but not fully replaced the engine - as far as I know.

Anyway, the platform that I want also offers free downloadable mod tools for driver & car skins / paint, car models & a track builder + guides & tutorials & auto-update subscriptions to all the mods via STEAM WORKSHOP or an app like Assetto Content Manager - maybe even comes from / is hosted by the devs?

The game also includes a career path + season builder.
- career path is like "the road to X".
- - LATE MODELS, SCCA, BTCC, WTCC, STCC, TA's, GT's, NASCAR, F1, etc.
- this gives single player racers a sense of progression & accomplishment.
- maybe to get into the late models - you have to run dirt karts, midgets, legends, street stock, big-blocks to get to the late models - kinda' like Tony Stewart games.
- maybe to get to F1 you have to go from street karts to Formula Fords, Skip Barber, Formula 4-3-2-1JR, etc. to get to F1? I am making stuff up because F1 is not my thing.

^^^Writing that was pretty tricky, everyone will have a diff idea how progression should work, so how about also adding an easy "Season Builder" to get noobs started?

The season builder let's you NAME your season, choose a group or class of cars + pick a list of tracks + number of laps, difficulty sliders, etc.

Of course the game would have difficulty options & sliders overall (like many existing games) that allow noobs to start Arcade racing & then turn up the realism to Amateur, Semi-Pro, PRO or whatever or turn down the assists (however you want to look at it) and adjust the skill, aggression, etc. of the Ai.

The UX, UE, UI "flowchart" seems like it could be very complicated & would need the utmost attention. Fortunately, this would ne a PC only game & that should help simplify the UX by NOT forcing it to be gamepad friendly.

ANYHOO...
- I just started thinking about this today & hope you guys will share your ideas!

PS: I'm not looking to argue - just proposing a friendly conversation over a few beers... or Perrier for the non-drinkers.

 

[jgf]

- iRacing started in 2008 (2024 minus 2008 = 16 years ago).
- yes, they've updated & added features - but not fully replaced the engine - as far as I know.

Actually older than that. iracing was built on the original coding for "NASCAR Racing 2003" (which is why Kaemmer banned all mods that edited that exe), so dates to 2002.
As for updating , "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".
I suspect no appreciable improvement is possible without starting from scratch (for all we know that may be underway).

free downloadable mod tools for driver & car skins / paint, car models & a track builder + guides & tutorials

Except for the track design program, those are unnecessary. Just use standard formats for graphics (bmp, dds, etc) and any available software will work. Same with 3D modeling, use a format compatible with existing 3D software. Track design software is just specialized 3D modeling, but it certainly helps to have all those special functions included. And decent documentation would be nice; too many utilities have been created for games over the years and just dumped on the internet with an attitude of "here it is, learn to use it".

via STEAM WORKSHOP

For many people, getting Steam involved is a dealbreaker. Keep it independent.

So, what would I like in a sim? There's a reason so many folks still use GTR2 - it has it all:
- single races or championship season
- single and multi class racing
- variable weather
- day/night cycles for endurance racing (time scaled or real time)
- good graphics, sound, FFB, easy UI, decent AI (if you take the time to tweak it)
- easy to mod/edit

And what do I not like?
- no hard copy
- "phone home" requirement
- proprietary and/or encrypted files
- little default content but get "nickel and dime" to death with DLC
- cannot add new content, only replace existing content (a complaint with every rally sim I've ever had)
- no save race options
- Steam

 

[GameBrain.media]

Actually...

Thanks for the friendly reply!

RE: iRacing - their HISTORY web page lists the INDY 500 game from 1989 as part of it's "Racing Heritage" because Kaemmer worked on that game, so is iRacing really 35 years old? NO. The point was - iRacing didn't have their first paying customer until 2008 and the game has been making money on that "platform" for 16 years vs substantially less expensive annual releases. However, the DLC there is insane.

I hope you see the broader point that "I want" games that last longer than 1 year and annually claim "totally new physics + 2024 race teams" year after year but nothing much actually changes for another $50 - like the F1, MXGP, Supercross games, so users don't return year after year & MP servers shut down. The only things that change are racer names & paint jobs (in the SX games you get new tracks each year but at $50 per year).

I think those games should be $40 for a base platform that you buy once & it's updated regularly for 5 or 10 years with $10~20 annual "track pass" (similar to MX vs ATV Legends).

RE: skins, paint, cars. Users should be able to update simple stuff in game with a simple UI or be given a UI or tools that allow them to paint cars & add mod parts like so many games already do. That adds to the fun for casual gamers.

Absolutely agree that advanced gamers / creators should be able to use / export game templates and import / export currently available paint / 3D tool formats like PSD, DDS, etc. as standards. However, the UI needs to have a tool similar to Assetto Content Manager for that. It's shocking how many gamers can't find their game game install folder and thus subfolders to manually install mods, so a built in mod browser & auto install system is a must - like Snowrunner & Expeditions Mudrunner use the "mod.io" system.

RE: tracks... yeah, that requires a dev provided track building tool, or some really good tutorials / plugins for a tool like Bob's. The whole point here is that there is a option for advanced users to make tracks "somehow" vs the obvious absence of that ability in many "one trick pony" games like F1 / MXGP, etc.

^^^More on that in another post...

RE: STEAM - yikes! That is so weird to me now, but I used to hate Steam & used to only buy CD / DVD games like you describe.

How about if they allow you to burn your own DVD of your game at various "states" of development (because there will be a plethora of updates, so a month after you burn 3 DVD's to "own" your content - it is out of date. Maybe you can burn a core install DVD & then just DL & burn dated / versioned "patches" as you go. This seems like an odd / paranoid / "they're spying on me" or "the world is going to end" or "the internet is going down, so I can't play my games"... which won't matter if it's the end of the world!

^^^Mostly joking up there!

RE: GTR2 - yes, mine is modded and amazing, but it wasn't easy to get it there! One of my all time fav games!

RE: What do I not like?
Almost all of the same things - but not having a hard copy or Steam only is no big deal to me nowdays.

Thanks again for the reply, I will write another post soon about the "one trick pony" games vs a game that I want - cross breeding RF1 & iRacing.

 

[GameBrain.media]

I started to address the "one trick pony" games or dedicated discipline games here:

What's needed for simracing in 2024?

I'd love to see a career mode like the one in Race Driver GRiD (the 2008 one) but more in depth. But seeing how simracing is gearing more towards online competitive modes, I doubt any dev studio would focus on that (until proven wrong).

www.overtake.gg

 

[jgf]

How about if they allow you to burn your own DVD

That's all I'm asking; so when a reinstall is necessary (we're still dealing with windows) I merely toss in the disc and install ...without waiting an eternity to again download 5, 7, 10 gig of data (not everyone has a 100tB per nanosecond internet connection).

There's also situations such as P3D, the third party 64bit reworking of MS FlightSim X. They release a new version every couple of years, download only, but only the most recent version is available. My system will run the previous version but not the new version, but the P3D folks will not sell the previous version and since it was download only there are no used copies available ...so they've lost a sale.

This seems like an odd / paranoid / "they're spying on me" or "the world is going to end" or "the internet is going down

RSC
The US Pits
Blackhole Motorsports
NoGrip
SRMZ

nothing lasts forever

And yes, they are "spying" on you. What is on my computer, what games I play, where I visit online, what purchases I make is none of anyone's business, not google, not Farcebook, not Steam. If they think they have a valid reason for acquiring all this information I resolutely urge them to hie down to the nearest judge and get a court order.

Consider - you are taking the family for a day of shopping, dinner, a movie. Everywhere you go, the minute you enter the door you are presented with a questionnaire: what is your name, where do you live, where do you work, what car do you drive, how did you finance it, where did you last purchase gas for it, what other merchants will you visit today, what movie will you see, where are you having dinner, what meal will you order, how will you pay, when will you head home, when will you next go shopping, where will you go, how much will you spend .....

How long would you tolerate this? Yet most people consider it quite acceptable online. I do not. I would gladly pay for software that would run quietly in the background on my computer and respond to every tracking request with one simple sentence - "None of your f'ing business".

 

[GameBrain.media]

That's all I'm asking; so when a reinstall is necessary (we're still dealing with windows) I merely toss in the disc and install ...without waiting an eternity to again download 5, 7, 10 gig of data (not everyone has a 100tB per nanosecond internet connection).

You'd have to toss in 10 or 100 disks at this stage - but that's why I have two 8TB external hard drives!

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=backup+steam+to+extenal+harddrive+

 

[GameBrain.media]

RSC
The US Pits
Blackhole Motorsports
NoGrip
SRMZ

nothing lasts forever

Excellent point! I miss NoGrip & Blackhole & rFactorCentral and many others.
Another point for external storage - save mods you may never have access to DL again!

 

[GameBrain.media]

...yes, they are "spying" on you.

How long would you tolerate this? Yet most people consider it quite acceptable online. I do not. I would gladly pay for software that would run quietly in the background on my computer and respond to every tracking request with one simple sentence - "None of your f'ing business".

Yes, BUTT - we also sign up to have leader board lap times & MP results documented for others to see online.

More than one website audaciously requires that you use your IRL name to compete, but it seems there were far too many bad apples in the barrel that brought that on.

It'd be nice to have a UI option telling games never share my info, etc.

That stuff is pretty nuanced vs my OP, but I welcome it.