DD1 vs CSL DD 8nm

[deanspoors]

So I've completed purchase of all sim rig;

Trak Racer TR120
Sparco Grid Q
50" TV on a standalone TV stand

I ordered a Fanatec Podium F1 (DD1) and V3 pedals with damper and performance kit, originally on the understanding I would only have to wait until May for availability, then I looked on their website last week to see they are now delayed until mid June. I went to cancel this original order, but then realised I'll lose around £150 in Paypal conversion fees, so for now I've ordered a CSL DD 8nm, V3 pedals (again ) and a GT2 V2 wheel. This should be coming in next week or two.

My question is now, will I be satisfied with the CSL DD, cancel the DD1 order and take the hit in fees, or keep the order, transfer across to the DD1 once it turns up and then sell on the CSL DD package?

BTW I've went for these wheel bases as I'm currently on a PS5.

Eventually, if I stick with the sim racing I'll probably move over to PC and triples (once funds allow).

 

[mechsicko]

Haven't used a DD1 but had a CSL DD 8nm. I liked it but it was really mushy at the endstops, so much so that I was continually blowing past them and losing track of wheel orientation in VR and crashing. I never had this problem with my CSW2.5, which on paper is the same torque but somehow the end stops are massively stronger.

I've since switched to Alpha Mini (rated at 10nm but measured at 13) and no longer have the problem. My conclusion is that while 8nm is good enough for basic effects to feel great it doesn't have enough power to simultaneously provide convincing end stops for direct drive.

 

[GagarynGaribaldi]

With the CSW2.5 the end stops are physical.
There are no physical end stops on a DD, theoretically it can spin infinitely, so software end stops are provided. The issue is, these can only be as strong as the holding force of the motor. In my opinion, this is the biggest flaw with low powered DD wheels.

 

[mechsicko]

With the CSW2.5 the end stops are physical.
There are no physical end stops on a DD, theoretically it can spin infinitely, so software end stops are provided. The issue is, these can only be as strong as the holding force of the motor. In my opinion, this is the biggest flaw with low powered DD wheels.

I was using 540deg in both cases so the wheelstops were both defined by the motor's resistance when stalled. In the 2.5 there's mechanical advantage of belts/pulleys but both cases are defined by the system's max holding torque.

at 13Nm Alpha Mini has enough overhead it can define stops as convincingly as the 2.5, as I'm sure DD1 can do even better but CSL DD was firm as a bowl of Jello at the stops

 

[Rebel_488]

So I've completed purchase of all sim rig;

Trak Racer TR120
Sparco Grid Q
50" TV on a standalone TV stand

I ordered a Fanatec Podium F1 (DD1) and V3 pedals with damper and performance kit, originally on the understanding I would only have to wait until May for availability, then I looked on their website last week to see they are now delayed until mid June. I went to cancel this original order, but then realised I'll lose around £150 in Paypal conversion fees, so for now I've ordered a CSL DD 8nm, V3 pedals (again ) and a GT2 V2 wheel. This should be coming in next week or two.

My question is now, will I be satisfied with the CSL DD, cancel the DD1 order and take the hit in fees, or keep the order, transfer across to the DD1 once it turns up and then sell on the CSL DD package?

BTW I've went for these wheel bases as I'm currently on a PS5.

Eventually, if I stick with the sim racing I'll probably move over to PC and triples (once funds allow).

What do u mean? I have a 770 gbp order I'm thinking about cancelling every single day as its not a necessity in the current economic climate etc, I would lose money due to using ppal?

 

[deanspoors]

Basically, yes. You never get a true conversion through PayPal, it’s just the same as when you purchase currency to go abroad. PayPal makes money in both directions. So very simply, if GBP:Euro was 1:1 and you were buying something for €1000 with PayPal conversion it’d likely cost £1050 but on a refund you’d only get £950 back.

 

[cnhoff]

I only have experience with the CSW2.5 and DD1 and i am running the latter at no more than 45 or 50% FF.

What you gain though is tons of dynamic range and headroom, so you dont ever have to deal with wheelbase clipping anymore. I had to constantly tune the FF settings on the CSW2.5 to not clip and that became a major PITA after a while.

Now the CSL DD at 8nm has a little bit more torque than the CSW, but you also ordered one of the heavier rims there is at 1.6kg?!, which aggravates the issue. When on the CSW, i tried to keep the rim as light as possible using mainly the Formula V2 at 1.3kg?! to avoid too much effort and dynamic range issues with the base. This is obviously not an issue at all with the DD1.

Now my personal opinion is, the CSL DD might actually perform as well as the DD1 if you are careful with what you are doing, but the above might need to be considered.

Btw off-topic: i just recently upgraded from the V3 pedals with the performance kit to the Heusinkveld Ultimates and i am blown away by the quality and easy of setting those up and adjusting settings to my liking (most of the settings are not even available on the V3s). I am also using around double the maximum pressure at the pedal plates which makes it noticeably easier to modulate the brake. The V3s are definitively good brakes, but i would suggest to at least look at the Heusinkveld Sprints or the likes, they are not worlds more expensive considering you are also planning to get the damper and performance kits, but offer a lot of additional quality.

 

[mrexcitement71]

100% agree , I have the HE Pro's and the Fanatec V3's don't even come close to the feel and operation , I would go so far as to say the HE Pro's were the single biggest improvement to my performance in racing sims , I also have a DD1 on a Trackracer TR80 rig.

 

[penam]

Hi, I've read these very good comments and opinions on different steering wheel bases. I have used the G25 and now the G29. I'm getting a DD steering wheel base, but when it comes to the necessary torque, I'm having some hesitation.

The CSL 8nm seems tempting due to its price, but can it happen that in reality it would take a little more torque headroom to make the feeling of driving optimal? I do not want to invest in vain in something I may need to replace shortly, but then again I do not want to spend money for something extra that I may not need. In addition, the increased size and weight is something that I would not necessarily like to add to my own rig. I'm willing to budget for a more expensive steering wheel base, but would it be worth it?

Are there 8nm CSL owners who are perfectly satisfied or would you like a bigger model? What about that thing with wheelstops? Is that a real problem?

I have also tried to look for an alternative to CSL 8nm, but it is difficult to know about reliability, compalibility, and what would be a safe place to buy on the web etc . The purchase of such an expensive device by an unfamiliar manufacturer is doubtful. Steering wheel options and compatibility are also one of the concerns. Any advice on alternatives would we great.

as cnhoff says:
"Now my personal opinion is, the CSL DD might actually perform as well as the DD1 if you are careful with what you are doing. "

What exactely does that mean? What do you have to be careful about?

 

[cnhoff]

Hi, I've read these very good comments and opinions on different steering wheel bases. I have used the G25 and now the G29. I'm getting a DD steering wheel base, but when it comes to the necessary torque, I'm having some hesitation.

The CSL 8nm seems tempting due to its price, but can it happen that in reality it would take a little more torque headroom to make the feeling of driving optimal? I do not want to invest in vain in something I may need to replace shortly, but then again I do not want to spend money for something extra that I may not need. In addition, the increased size and weight is something that I would not necessarily like to add to my own rig. I'm willing to budget for a more expensive steering wheel base, but would it be worth it?

Are there 8nm CSL owners who are perfectly satisfied or would you like a bigger model? What about that thing with wheelstops? Is that a real problem?

I have also tried to look for an alternative to CSL 8nm, but it is difficult to know about reliability, compalibility, and what would be a safe place to buy on the web etc . The purchase of such an expensive device by an unfamiliar manufacturer is doubtful. Steering wheel options and compatibility are also one of the concerns. Any advice on alternatives would we great.

as cnhoff says:
"Now my personal opinion is, the CSL DD might actually perform as well as the DD1 if you are careful with what you are doing. "

What exactely does that mean? What do you have to be careful about?

What i mean with that is that i would not put the heaviest of wheels on that base (think the old BMW rim at 2.2kg) and not push the FF to the max or you will get dynamic range issues.

I don't like too strong holding forces, so depending on the car, the maximum torque i am asking from the base is 10 to 12 NM with cars like the Group C, but my DD1 has another 10Nm of headroom to simulate any additional effects ON TOP of that.

You just have to be realistic about the torque you can use on that base. Aside from that 8Nm is definitively reasonable and should allow for a realistic and fun experience with e.g. GT3 cars and many more. Just don't expect it to replicate the feel of a 70s Le Mans car with a very heavy rim...

 

[penam]

What i mean with that is that i would not put the heaviest of wheels on that base (think the old BMW rim at 2.2kg) and not push the FF to the max or you will get dynamic range issues.

I don't like too strong holding forces, so depending on the car, the maximum torque i am asking from the base is 10 to 12 NM with cars like the Group C, but my DD1 has another 10Nm of headroom to simulate any additional effects ON TOP of that.

You just have to be realistic about the torque you can use on that base. Aside from that 8Nm is definitively reasonable and should allow for a realistic and fun experience with e.g. GT3 cars and many more. Just don't expect it to replicate the feel of a 70s Le Mans car with a very heavy rim...

Hi cnhoff, thank you for your opionions. I really appreciate it. I need to evaluate the options carefully on this issue. And also other vendors 10-13 nm options.

I mostly like to drive modern cars like MB AMG GT and several Porsches. And some compact cars. Skoda Octavia 2008 is great to drive and Seat Leon Cup, too. Then F3 and F1 formulas. And some GT cars. But many old and historic cars are great fun, too.

 

[blekenbleu]

necessary torque

Barry @ SRG, as an aside, yesterday noted that at least 9Nm is wanted,
which the MOZA R9 provides and he used set at 100%.

FWIW, Barry reports what he describes as "notchiness"
e.g. when turning from left to right,
which he claims to sense in nearly all wheelbases, direct or not.

 

[2stains]

I have a CSWv2 and a few rims, a 270mm Round One on Podium Hub no shifters and in say the MCR 2000 in AMS2 at 100 FF on base and 70 ingame it is very heavy and feels amazing, when I fit the 320mm Porsche rim on universal hub those same settings now feel much easier to drive, still feels nice but so much change from those rims alone.

I just ordered a CSL DD and hoping I get the same feelings as the CSWv2 but with more detail and speed. My old CSWv2 is aging quite a bit that even the DRI setting do nothing anymore.

Fingers crossed the DD at 8nm feels at least as strong as the CSWv2.

As for end stops, unless I'm drifting I very rarely ever hit them on my CSWv2.