Cars Datsun 240Z

[Kyuubeey]

VERY EARLY WIP

DATSUN Z CARS OF THE 240 VARIETY

I was urged to make a thread, so here it is. I will use it to channel your energy to perhaps release this car before the heat death of the universe. I'm a beginner to 3D modeling and anything related to it, and I'm not working on this with the intent of releasing it as soon as possible, just as a thing to learn some 3D. The final car will most likely be off slightly or perhaps quite a lot, but I mean no offense to these fine vehicles and I'll try my best. I'm an alright 2D artist so my eyes mostly work correctly: maybe the car will look half right in the end too!

However, I have many long years of physics dev experience, and there's quite a lot of data on this car out there, so I believe it will be the best in that regard. My motivation to begin modeling the car came from driving my physics version during the start of 2018 and having a strong urge to put my spin on the car. Finally now I've been able to start making it a reality.

I'll be posting most of my progress reports in the What Are You Working On thread at https://www.racedepartment.com/threads/the-what-are-you-working-on-thread.126119/

Join me if you wish and offer some pointers if you know a thing or two about 3D and peripherals, and perhaps the car might come out, too! Just don't be disappointed if the release is somewhere in the late 2020's. I really don't know if I'll be able to follow it through. To now it's been very smooth.

Here's some pictures. This is still the easy part, I have a lot to learn before it can become more fleshed out.

EDIT: Updated pictures. As always, very WIP and always changing. Because of my lack of skill and experience, it'll be some time until the cool stuff starts coming. I can see some strange shading in-game that doesn't appear anywhere else, so I'll have to investigate. Hard to see though.

What variant exactly I'm going to make is yet to be decided. I'm leaning towards 1972 JDM and USDM 240ZL.

 

[djtopa]

Good luck!Imo one of the best looking JDM cars ever.And we need more JDM in AC.Thanks!

 

[Ben O'Bro]

i'd drive that

 

[Kyuubeey]

@CC
@garyjpaterson

If you want to give some more specific advice, let's maybe continue it here.

 

[Kyuubeey]

i'd drive that

If you can show me that there's a demand, I might release the car early once the mesh is close to being completed, just for people to drive and give feedback on. There's no telling when it'll be 100% done, after all.

 

[Ben O'Bro]

If you can show me that there's a demand, I might release the car early once the mesh is close to being completed, just for people to drive and give feedback on. There's no telling when it'll be 100% done, after all.

early access is double sided. One hand it will motivate you seeing the enjoyment from people, on the other you will have the grumpy ones that will criticize and point every mistake, which can be useful, sometimes.

on another note, i can offer to do the rims if you'd like
i'm a rim kinda guy ^^ i did the BBS for accakut's lotus KRB

 

[Kyuubeey]

early access is double sided. One hand it will motivate you seeing the enjoyment from people, on the other you will have the grumpy ones that will criticize and point every mistake, which can be useful, sometimes.

on another note, i can offer to do the rims if you'd like
i'm a rim kinda guy ^^ i did the BBS for accakut's lotus KRB

Yeah, I'm aware. I've already went down the road of learning traditional art and got my ass chewed by everyone in existence. I'm used to it. If one person would enjoy it, it'd be okay for me. But right now the car's just too early.


If you want, you can do any rim you want for the car and I'd probably figure out a version to include it in. Of course, if you want to help, I'd be honored to accept it. Physics won't be even the slightest issue, so do the stock rims, the alloy wheels, something aftermarket, whatever you like. Would you just include me the source files so I can take a look at them myself after?

 

[garyjpaterson]

you can do any rim you want for the car and I'd probably figure out a version to include it in

Yours if you want it

 

[Kyuubeey]

Yours if you want it
View attachment 287615

That looks like a wide bicycle wheel.

Who makes that? Coulda swore I'd seen a wire mesh wheel like that before. I'll take it and find some use for it, if you want. PM me?

EDIT: That's an E-type wheel, isn't it?

 

[CC]

Well I am not certain how everyone else perceives making 3D in there minds,
but personally for me, I see 3D as a puzzle, a complex 3D puzzle, I need to start from 0 build the templates or specific views to start the puzzle off with, then build it like I say from 0-100%

a lot of people go about completing the puzzle in a certain way, sometimes the techniques are either incorrect or correct during the building process,
but a AAA industry gaming standard puzzle made by some of the best 3D artists in the world,
you can look at the puzzle and you can see every single thought process the guy had during the building of the 3D piece if you kind of look at it that way,
like playing chess and analyzing someones moves on the chess board,
some people can complete the puzzles quite fast, some people take slightly longer,

as each 3D piece/puzzle is different in appearance each time you make it,
its really important that the foundations/techniques are correct,
so taking time to learn how to create the puzzle is a must,
it really does help during the process to have full understanding,

this is not really easy to gain access to the information, there is a lot of videos on youtube,
and a lot of information online, but personally from past experiences they never really helped,
looking back now there is a lot of misinformation online regarding the ways and techniques involved to create the puzzle using the best techniques one can achieve,

personally from my own experience, takes a lot of years and patience to learn all the small tricks,
all the small time saving tools, and mini techniques,
if you look at say game characters online for games like COD, and certain characters like this,
you will see a lot better information than you will do with making the same quality AAA content for some strange reason, cars vs characters, the videos and information is a lot different,
90% of videos online for cars are mostly WIP, or tutorials but the techniques I find are not the best,
but in the end you will still have made a car and to most people this is fine,
its still a fun process non the less,
but using the correct techniques, will save time at some point during the process,
and will stop a lot of headaches and stress from not understanding fully the concept of maybe even what your supposed to be even doing.

like for example if you compare these 2 images,
1st image is from ACC and the car is currently ingame,
ACC

then compare this image from say RF2,

Well the plan was to make a comparison from 2 games and 2 different artists,
and to show the core foundations and techniques was the same by analyzing
both pictures and showing some information regarding the techniques,
but turns out Mirza made both cars comparing the cars so now left confused to why both companies using the same content, anyways this car is the perfect example on how to make a AAA car using the correct techniques,
smoothing groups / turbosmooth / optimizations,

the main trick here is to start with low geometry,
and isolate all the panels on the mesh, with smoothing groups,
so windows, doors, bonnets, fenders, bumpers, and some harder edges surfaces if there is a change on 1 panel from soft to hard, this can be done by simply splitting the edges on that path,
but still by using the smoothing groups and turbosmooth,

its important not to delete or cut away the mesh, like glass,
the entire car should still remain 100% intact at all times, just isolated by the smoothing groups the different areas,
but if you check all game studios content, you can clearly see the lines/geometry,
on the doors at the side, go up through the glass and over the roof, the path remains the same,
its possible to detach some geometry like say windows, but still apply the same smoothing groups and turbosmooth to the mesh which will still carry on the same level of details within the mesh structure,
I will have to leave it here for now, ill come back and maybe demonstrate some more later regarding the techniques involved, turned into quite a long reply lol.

 

[Kyuubeey]

@CC

Thanks for taking the time to express your thoughts. I agree based on what I know about art asset production in general. Not just 3D, but 2D as well, from designing to implementing.

The important part IMO is the fundamentals ie: how to see and think about forms, the steps taken to approach the process, the techniques (In 2D it's more literal, how to move the hand and also the rest of the body) and so on.

I think after that comes things like anatomy (Generally meant for soft surface like humans and animals, but hard surface has anatomy as well.), perspective (In 2D the manipulation of perspective, in 3D more-so the understanding of immediate spacial relationships from what I've experienced to now.), and then of course gathering the visual library and understanding of real objects, common shapes etc. to apply in the art.

Very last is the tools and specific application of technique.

The tools and technique can vary from person to person, subject matter to subject matter or even because of how you feel. But like you said, there are, let's say, "common effective solutions" towards a known goal. Some ways are better for some goals. I think in 3D, there's a more strict criteria of "better" because of the highly literal demands of models ie: must be skinnable, must be relatively low poly, must shade well from all angles etc.

The most important is just the seat time. When I was learning 2D, I found a bunch of crap about learning to draw and render, and while some high-level professional information in books and from instructors was at the very least not detrimental, I really needed to develop my own method of learning and techniques, which was derived from reverse-engineering high level professional techniques: because they are effective.

Even then with a quite good method, it has taken several years to get even "alright". Had I worked harder, I would have achieved a lot more: it comes down to seat time in the end!

I won't ask you to share any of your secrets: mainly because A: I know that you won't and B: It will be unintelligible to me, but if you want, you can write more about your approach to the basics. It's interesting.


Oh, and as a sidenote, my advice to all artists working with their bodies is: please take a break every 30 minutes to walk around, wiggle your hands and arms a bit, do stretches and massage! I learned from an injury that still reminds me to this day. It is healing however (I can do 3D after all), so never give up.

 

[deCarera]

The 240Z is sorely missing in AC though I'm really hoping for an IMSA GTU version as in GTL since that car so thoroughly dominated its class back in the day.I hope this is stil a WIP.

 

[Kyuubeey]

The 240Z is sorely missing in AC though I'm really hoping for an IMSA GTU version as in GTL since that car so thoroughly dominated its class back in the day.I hope this is stil a WIP.

Hey,

I actually touched the physics a little yesterday. However it's unlikely I myself would model the car to completion; I'm more interested in finishing the AE86. I'm very inexperienced in car 3D modeling and punching a bit above my weight range, so no promises.

However, there is a chance that I can get someone else who is interested to model the 240Z for me. We just need to get some stuff out of the way first. These things take time when you do it for free.

 

[P_Cote]

If you need suspension measurements, one of my car buddies actually has two of them. I would be glad to help you get accurate info if you don't already have it...

 

[Kyuubeey]

If you need suspension measurements, one of my car buddies actually has two of them. I would be glad to help you get accurate info if you don't already have it...

If you can go and measure up the car's pickups from wheel center, preferably at factory ride height and 0 camber, it'd help at least sanitize some aspects of the geo.