lolMy name is where I am from and what is it about my avatar?
Your avatar is eerily resembling this one:
and Cote D'Azur is a track in this NFS version:
I guess two pure coincidences
Career / Story Mode in Sim Racing – For or Against?
- Thread starter Paul Jeffrey
- Start date
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- sim racing
Your avatar is eerily resembling this one:
and Cote D'Azur is a track in this NFS version:
I guess two pure coincidences
Are you trolling mate?
You have a release coming up, go work on that instead of arguing with me
Stefano asked a reasonable question, a career doesn't prevent you from enjoying the drive, for many of us it enhances it by creating more immersion.
I agree with you cut scenes are not fun but if the physics are great, I don't mind sitting through a few seconds of animation.
I'm in Your heel mate!Thank you, I accept it with great honor!
Seriously, a career is a way to attract more people and can be used as a way to introduce racing through slower cars. I have been away from SIM racing for close to two years and pcars2 and Assetto Corsa career helped me to regain my legs by providing simple challenges in weaker cars and progressively move me towards more powerful specs. How is that a bad thing? As I said earlier, a school system like in grand turismo or RBR are also very good in teaching people actual driving technique so they become better drivers through repetition in a controlled environment. Again, how is this a bad thing?
I am not too fussed about movies and story but Heck, if a dev wants to add it, why not? You can still enjoy your unbridled simulation but more people are likely to stick with a game (and these are games regardless of anyone's personal feelings about it) if they have some sense of progression attached to it rather than being thrown on the deep end from the get go. And that will ultimately result in more people joining the hobby which benefits all of us in more ways than we might even realize.
Ok, a comparison to other games and what they do. Looter shooters like destiny or the division have their gameplay split in two parts:
The campaign and early game where you are introduced to the game mechanics and learn the game in a relaxed controlled environment. You will hit your first walls here but none of them will appear insurmountable so the challenge is aimed at slightly above your skill level.
Then comes the end game where you are fine tuning your character, your loot, your skills and where you do raids and fight bosses.
Sim racing titles fail in this split imho (except for iracing) and either provide you with no early level where you can learn in a safe fun environment (for instance, Assetto Corsa with its weak career still gives you some of this though it lacks immersion) and Most of them lack a serious late game which in this case would be quality online racing where you go out to face other people with a similar skill level and safety rating pool using what you learnt and practiced. Sure you can use SRS in Assetto Corsa but that involves installing third party applications (why no official support) and is therefore not user friendly. PCARS2 had an interesting system where it split players by safety rating but not by skill and I think that is what caused that game to have lacklustre longevity (more casual players would get pitted against aliens online and get completely smashed since there was a safety separation but not a skill) even though it is a very solid racing sim (using ffb tweaks for my TS PC so not user friendly in that regard too).
Anyway, a proper career in my opinion is an integral part on providing a good user experience and can help the longevity of a game by giving a structured safe environemnt in which new and old sim racers can hone their skills and get ready for the end game.
I am not too fussed about movies and story but Heck, if a dev wants to add it, why not? You can still enjoy your unbridled simulation but more people are likely to stick with a game (and these are games regardless of anyone's personal feelings about it) if they have some sense of progression attached to it rather than being thrown on the deep end from the get go. And that will ultimately result in more people joining the hobby which benefits all of us in more ways than we might even realize.
Ok, a comparison to other games and what they do. Looter shooters like destiny or the division have their gameplay split in two parts:
The campaign and early game where you are introduced to the game mechanics and learn the game in a relaxed controlled environment. You will hit your first walls here but none of them will appear insurmountable so the challenge is aimed at slightly above your skill level.
Then comes the end game where you are fine tuning your character, your loot, your skills and where you do raids and fight bosses.
Sim racing titles fail in this split imho (except for iracing) and either provide you with no early level where you can learn in a safe fun environment (for instance, Assetto Corsa with its weak career still gives you some of this though it lacks immersion) and Most of them lack a serious late game which in this case would be quality online racing where you go out to face other people with a similar skill level and safety rating pool using what you learnt and practiced. Sure you can use SRS in Assetto Corsa but that involves installing third party applications (why no official support) and is therefore not user friendly. PCARS2 had an interesting system where it split players by safety rating but not by skill and I think that is what caused that game to have lacklustre longevity (more casual players would get pitted against aliens online and get completely smashed since there was a safety separation but not a skill) even though it is a very solid racing sim (using ffb tweaks for my TS PC so not user friendly in that regard too).
Anyway, a proper career in my opinion is an integral part on providing a good user experience and can help the longevity of a game by giving a structured safe environemnt in which new and old sim racers can hone their skills and get ready for the end game.
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Career mode is good. Story mode not. Let me explain..
Start an offline career mode, setup the car, go to track and drive. Thats ok
Start an offline story mode. Setup your character. How he looks, what he wears, how he celebrates and so on.... cutscene. Interview. Cutscene. Animated procedure in the paddocks before car setup. Car setup. Race.... i'm tired and bored already. No
Start an offline career mode, setup the car, go to track and drive. Thats ok
Start an offline story mode. Setup your character. How he looks, what he wears, how he celebrates and so on.... cutscene. Interview. Cutscene. Animated procedure in the paddocks before car setup. Car setup. Race.... i'm tired and bored already. No
Ultimate racing d-bag: "I don't race on sims because they all take place in front of computers and to me that looks like a game..."
I don't buy a racing sim for the career mode, but if the career mode is any good why not play it ey?
Agreed, when I put my Formula Vee through a tire wall in real life, the team spent 2 hours getting it straight again. Are these "too-sim-for-you" guys waiting two hours before they hit <ESC>? Well, they don't want to sim EVERYTHING I guess...
I - for one - bought the ACC Early Access BECAUSE it was going to have career mode. And b/c the title is a focused GT3 experience, I have faith that it will be a better than the AC career (a little leap of faith, yes). I would like a good story mode too. Why not? I play MGS IV, and Just Cause and GTA V to live through different eyes, same way some people watch Better Call Saul or Ozark. And if you want to compare racing in a story mode versus online, I have faith that Kunos can tune the GT3 AI better than *most* knuckleheads you find online. Codemasters did a good job in 2018, at least. Not everyone wants to spend 80% of their free computer time working on setups to compete against 15 year olds who are going to kick your butt anyway.
If only it was possible.
I think driving with some consequences is really the only thing that would make the experience feel different. What's the point driving in the same fashion you would in a quick race?
It would have set levels of Ai difficulty you couldn't just choose a setting that made it easy, you actually have to earn a win by being good & start of in more amateur competitions.
It may be that you will never really make it as an F1 driver.
Your team has limited funds. Your team has limited patience.
Crashing hard enough would end the career due to injury or death. Drive stupidly could see you banned.
Planning & strategies are essential.
I just feel like i'm going through the motions in most game career modes.
IMO...
Rf2 is an online racingsim- no need any career/story mode. Simracers doesn't play offline...I guess. (I never drive offline against AI) So I'm against!
Forza series, Project Cars, etc...Car racing games...must have career/story mode.
Edited 21. March...
I'm surprised how many gamer are here and only 4 Racers agree with me.
I think what people are disagreeing with is the notion that simracers don't play offline. Yes, AI remains a criticism of offline modes, but not dealbreakers for most people, I don't think.
manu68
Premium
I purchased F1 2018 to have a look a the career mode.
I like how it is made.
Okay, it is not really a career, but it is a kind of motivation to keep on going with the championship.
The animation are cool.
This game is not a pure simulation as ACC, but it is pretty adictive too in my opinion.
Nice entertaining F1 game.
Of course a bigger career from karting to F1 or Endurance / nascar would be great, but probably complicated to manage.
I like how it is made.
Okay, it is not really a career, but it is a kind of motivation to keep on going with the championship.
The animation are cool.
This game is not a pure simulation as ACC, but it is pretty adictive too in my opinion.
Nice entertaining F1 game.
Of course a bigger career from karting to F1 or Endurance / nascar would be great, but probably complicated to manage.
I honestly didn't think you and your team would have any interest in creating an enjoyable career mode. I thought you were solely for the 'sim' value of the game at the expense of all else, especially after the console versions of AC.
I am glad to admit I was wrong, you and your team are on track for something quite special with ACC. We've disagreed many times over the console versions but I have also often praised the genius in your PC games.
So far the gamification elements of ACC are excellent. Career and gamification of racing games/sims/flight sims sit side by side for me. The driver rating and feedback is truly useful. There is instant feedback about speed, line, sliding and where improvements can be made. Previously only the Gran Turismo licences have had anywhere near a similar level of driver feedback and training. In terms of helping people improve on track driving this is an excellent system and I'm sure it will evolve further yet.
However, by far the greatest innovation you've introduced is the short/long hotstint, a superb incentive to practice consistent longer runs with changing weather conditions and tyre heat/wear. I know this isn't a full career mode yet, but running a long consistent stint is what race drivers are asked to do so I see this as a step in the right direction. As with your previous AC 'trackday' servers I see this being often imitated by other games.
The fact the race engineer asks me to achieve 11th or better gives me great hope the full career mode will be balanced to the skill of the driver and ability of the team. The AI are already, occasional 1st corner issues aside, fun to race against.
In keeping with this thread I'm sure you'll allow those who just want to hotlap and race online to do so. An enjoyable career mode will be great for the rest of us.
Have many likes. I think I will get ACC now. Exactly this. As for Then people wanting to be rocked by a crash, I have a cricket bat and don't charge much. I can sit by your side while you are having a session and once you crash I can wack you hard as I can on the chest or head. 10 pound an hour sounds reasonable.I honestly didn't think you and your team would have any interest in creating an enjoyable career mode. I thought you were solely for the 'sim' value of the game at the expense of all else, especially after the console versions of AC.
I am glad to admit I was wrong, you and your team are on track for something quite special with ACC. We've disagreed many times over the console versions but I have also often praised the genius in your PC games.
So far the gamification elements of ACC are excellent. Career and gamification of racing games/sims/flight sims sit side by side for me. The driver rating and feedback is truly useful. There is instant feedback about speed, line, sliding and where improvements can be made. Previously only the Gran Turismo licences have had anywhere near a similar level of driver feedback and training. In terms of helping people improve on track driving this is an excellent system and I'm sure it will evolve further yet.
However, by far the greatest innovation you've introduced is the short/long hotstint, a superb incentive to practice consistent longer runs with changing weather conditions and tyre heat/wear. I know this isn't a full career mode yet, but running a long consistent stint is what race drivers are asked to do so I see this as a step in the right direction. As with your previous AC 'trackday' servers I see this being often imitated by other games.
The fact the race engineer asks me to achieve 11th or better gives me great hope the full career mode will be balanced to the skill of the driver and ability of the team. The AI are already, occasional 1st corner issues aside, fun to race against.
In keeping with this thread I'm sure you'll allow those who just want to hotlap and race online to do so. An enjoyable career mode will be great for the rest of us.
Paulo Ribeiro
Animals and Racing Lover
I wish I could 'like', 'love', 'beer' and 'agree' your post. All of them.
Should be mandatory feature and it should be a second "core experience" along with online. F1 2018 mostly attracts because of the career mode while the driving model and FFB are horrible crap but since it is actually a full game, not just driving simulator with barely functioning lobby.. it is more fun.
There are untapped potential on that side, it would be more enticing to have a special career with each new DLC.. You do not need complicated cut scenes, those have way less value than what for ex F1 series think.
The problems are of course in the AI side of things that doesn't really cause that many manhours in a "proper" simracing title, not as much as it would with "storymode"... as that requires not just flat performance but dynamic progression, development race, all the clutter that the management side can bring... It is totally another ballgame than a slider with 0-100% on it or even "adaptive AI" tat adjust to your speed.
But i still want a proper story mode on a proper driving game and not a weak, thin career mode in a poor driving game, which is about the best we got. And i can promise that not having anything cool to do drives casual gamers away for no real reason. We can always give more TC and ABS on top of a good physics without sacrificing one BIT on the "proper" part of a racing simulator. It can be a game too, not just a simulator.
also: where are our open world maps? It is 2019 and we still drive around in a GP track... comeon devs, get on it. I don't care if it is not LIDAR copy of real world, it does not have to actually be a real place.. just vast, persistent and with massive number of simultaneously online players, is that too much to ask?
There are untapped potential on that side, it would be more enticing to have a special career with each new DLC.. You do not need complicated cut scenes, those have way less value than what for ex F1 series think.
The problems are of course in the AI side of things that doesn't really cause that many manhours in a "proper" simracing title, not as much as it would with "storymode"... as that requires not just flat performance but dynamic progression, development race, all the clutter that the management side can bring... It is totally another ballgame than a slider with 0-100% on it or even "adaptive AI" tat adjust to your speed.
But i still want a proper story mode on a proper driving game and not a weak, thin career mode in a poor driving game, which is about the best we got. And i can promise that not having anything cool to do drives casual gamers away for no real reason. We can always give more TC and ABS on top of a good physics without sacrificing one BIT on the "proper" part of a racing simulator. It can be a game too, not just a simulator.
also: where are our open world maps? It is 2019 and we still drive around in a GP track... comeon devs, get on it. I don't care if it is not LIDAR copy of real world, it does not have to actually be a real place.. just vast, persistent and with massive number of simultaneously online players, is that too much to ask?
I'm quite surprised your comment has so many disagrees, 81, and also so many less agrees at 26.No. If it has a story mode, it's not a sim, it's a game. Story mode means more time and money spent to develop it, so less resources on technical side of things. And SIM should be considered a tool. Racing game however is a GAME targeted primarily for masses and entertainment, with easy controls, probably designed to be playable with console controllers and keyboard.
F1, as in screenshot, can call itself a "sim" all it wants, but input lag, handling and other issues tell otherwise.
EDIT: Before flaming me, I was referring to "story" side of things. Story is the part with characters, actors, voice acting, scripts etc.
Career is very useful for new players to gradually learn driving.
EDIT#2: Jesus, that's a lot of Disagrees from hurt F1 fanbois
I agree with every word you wrote...Career mode, heck yes!!!
If it wasn't for career mode, I would have never experienced all the wonderful cars and track & track-variations in GT Legends. Career modes in racing games getting to experience and appreciate so many different vehicles, tracks, and scenarios (large grid, small grid, mixed-class grid, night time, day time, short race, long race, rain, dry, mixed weather, etc.). I also love slowly moving up to better / higher-performing cars. I love being "forced" to learn and experience different cars & tracks and how to push and get the best out of them. Furthermore, I get a better sense of speed and am better able to notice & appreciate the higher performance of better & better cars if I slowly move up to them. Finally, it also gives you something to look forward to when you know you will be rewarded with a different car or a car upgrade.
Story mode? No!
If a story is directly integrated into the video game like, for example, a game called Until Dawn (1 example of many) then a story mode is fine and in some ways needed because the story impacts your actions/decisions and vice-versa but, those games aside, why the heck do I care if Lieutenant Billy is having an affair with Sergeant Edwards' dog while playing Call of Duty? Why do I care to watch my CGI self spray champagne after winning an F1 race? Lol, it's just a bunch of bull-crap.
It's just "filler crap" for more sales; honestly, I bet you most videogames would have way less sales and less time played if they had no story mode. How good is the pure gameplay itself without a story? That's the real question. Maybe I'm just too much of a "purist" or something, I don't know.
When I see a friend of mine play newer basketball videogames, I have to hold in my laughter as he's sitting there watching 4 CGI commentators in a booth talking to one-another in an attempt to simulate a pre-game or post-game show. Like, you bought a videogame to play videogame basketball but instead of playing, you're going to watch 4 CGI characters just sitting in a both talking gibberish before you play? What??!!! LOL! Or there will be locker-room scenes where you're talking to your coach or something, lol!! I find it very childish and, to be frank, embarrassing especially when other adults are around. I could understand him being entertained by pointless videogame stories and cut-scenes if he was 10 years old but he's an adult, lol.
Having said all that, story modes are only going to get more and more involved in videogames. I've been saying this since the 1990s. As graphics, physics, everything gets better and better, more and more will be simulated in games. We'll eventually get to a point where movies start becoming like the old "choose your own adventure" novels where you decide what happens in certain scenes and scenarios. Then, the next step, will be movies where you're free to rotate the camera 360 degrees. This can have some cool uses especially in scenes with lots of different tings happening, beautiful scenery scenes, mystery movies, 1st person movies (free cam rotation from the character's point of view). Then, from there, real-life movies will largely (unfortunately) get phased out due to CGI movies where you don't just get to choose what a character decides in particular scenes or control the camera/head, but actually play the character (in the theatre in some sort of VR booth or something, or maybe even at home).
Basically, movies will slowly turn into a videogame while videogames slowly add movie elements. In the future, they will, for the most part, fully converge and be one and the same.
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This is the sim racing career I've been waiting for.
I want it to be difficult with consequences, make a victory something worth jumping out of my sim rig for.
You could have a "hardcore" career mode with a few of the great points you suggested limited funds, team or sponsor patience, career ending crash etc.
Good stuff.
