Can a mod ever be better than the actual dev car?

[apex11]

I have found a few mods that IMO are a better drive than the in game cars..... Anyone else agree on this?
Case in point for me is the Audi LMS 2016.... the game car is good, but the mod car on RD is sublime..
Its the feel it gives on and over the limit. modders were/are AGU i think....wonderful car..

 

[garyjpaterson]

...FFB multi, Steering assist, steering ratio and lock.
They are the key to sorting out any car that has bad FFB pretty much

Lol. FFB is a lot more than that.

 

[apex11]

Lol. FFB is a lot more than that.

I know but i mean as in that would be good as an in game option, but its hidden away.
Its quite simple, I have a mod that felt awful in FFB, got Content Manager and it had access to the car DATA file so tweeked the FFB multi setting down and steering ratio and got it feeling pretty good..
To a modder this means nothing, to some layman able to sort it out via CM its golden..

 

[Stereo]

There's an app that adjusts each car's ffb multiplier, it's only as hidden as any other app... iirc it also has a default mapping of +- or something.

 

[apex11]

There's an app that adjusts each car's ffb multiplier, it's only as hidden as any other app... iirc it also has a default mapping of +- or something.

You just don't get it. Forget it.... those that know know.

 

[garyjpaterson]

There's an app that adjusts each car's ffb multiplier, it's only as hidden as any other app... iirc it also has a default mapping of +- or something.

This^ does the exact same thing as this:

I have a mod that felt awful in FFB, got Content Manager and it had access to the car DATA file so tweeked the FFB multi setting down

You just don't get it. Forget it.... those that know know.

This one is pretty funny though. Clearly you don't 'know' what Stereo does.

 

[dud]

Out of interest why do you think kunos or any dev would make an F1 car have less downforce in a sim?

End-to-end tests would be one reason. Car as modeled straight out of known data is faster than real car on real track.

Then it comes down to make it slower. The tire model is imperfect, the most problematic aspect in every racing game ever. You might have to play with the downforce to come up with the right times given the tire model you have.

The aero model is also a bit too simplistic, because it doesn't model how different wings interact with each other, as opposed to in isolation. Downforce from different aero elements in AC can only be added to each other, whereas in reality there also is a multiplication effect at play. The prime example is a 911 with a big diffuser. The ducktail (foldable or not, might or might not live under a real wing) doesn't do much downforce of its own. The ducktail prevents air from gliding down the 911 back slope into the diffuser (if you didn't do that then the 911 would be one giant airplane wing with upforce). So the ducktail on a 911 should probably not be modeled as a downforce in its own right, but more as a multiplier for the diffuser. This is not in the current version of AC.

AC also models in no way aero effects from tires, which is a big deal in Formula 1. Managing the wash of air dragged under the front of the tire and then squished to the sides keeps Adrian Newey plenty busy, according to his (awesome) book.

So in the end you have to live with an imperfect tire model, a slightly less imperfect aero model, and come up with the right lap times, top speeds, lateral G forces etc. Now you do try'n'error.

 

[dud]

The Kunos F2004 has less downforce than all other cars on here, except the Kunos SF15-T. The ASR F2004 has the most out of all.
The Kunos F2004 and SF15-T both have significantly less downforce than modded F1 cars of the same year, ASR F2004 and VRC FW37, respectively.
In fact, even Senna's old McLaren by VRC has more downforce than Kunos' 2004 and 2015 F1 cars. Somehow the 2009 FW31 also has more when the rule changes significantly reduced downforce after the 2008 season?

So either VRC gets all their cars consistently wrong (and is somehow realistically in line with the CL found on ASR's F2004) or Kunos has too little downforce.

You need to make sure that all of them are at the "correct" ride height. Body and diffuser depend on it a lot. You have to decide whether "correct" here means all at the same height, or the height they historically had. Cars around 1993-1994 ride insanely low.

 

[Amir Vodokotlic]

I would say good modding team can be just as good and even better than kunos cars.


On race cars and especially F1 cars I would even say that the good mod teams do better job (due to zero time constraints and good research)

In general you have to realize at end of the day this is computer simulation where you have 10-20 different things you can tweak to get the result that you want.

For example lets take kunos road car p1, huracan etc.

You start with known stuff that any modder can do.
-engine /gear ratios / dimensions /brakes /ai /weight /electronics

than you're left with
-aero
-suspensions
-tyres

aero
drag is easily found
downforce (cl) is hard to get sometimes manufacturer will quote in press release at xx speed this car makes this much kg of downforce. this is where kunos might get correct cl numbers but highly doubt it

suspensions
suspensions is probably the trickiest and what ultimately determines if mod car is crap ffb or not... kunos usually for road cars gets cad data which allows them to get correct pickup up points......spring rates/camber/toe etc is nothing that modder can't figure out.

tyres
kunos use a tyre template for road cars, so huracan, aventador, p1 etc will have intermediate (ie slicks) just with different width/radius.
other than cx_mult and combined factor its pretty much stock tyre file for all road cars that use trofeo tyres. using content manager you can easily take tyres out of equation by taking tyres from kunos cars.


so ultimately imo the biggest difference between kunos cars and mod cars is the suspension file.

this is where you download garbage mods from elsewhere ie *********** and second you drive it realize modder just took suspension from another car or just randomly squashed numbers in there.

 

[Mirta27]

You need to make sure that all of them are at the "correct" ride height. Body and diffuser depend on it a lot. You have to decide whether "correct" here means all at the same height, or the height they historically had. Cars around 1993-1994 ride insanely low.

I feel it's fair to compare them at their completely stock setup on endless floor, as you can see from the mirror in the MP4/4. Sure, you can change setups in the kunos F2004 and SF15 to maximize downforce, but you can then do the same in the modded F1 cars.
Plus, if you were to tune the ASR F2004 or the FW37 to the point where their downforce equals that of kunos, it's significantly harder to run the same laptimes around most tracks, so yeah..

 

[apex11]

This^ does the exact same thing as this:



This one is pretty funny though. Clearly you don't 'know' what Stereo does.

OK instead of being big headed about it simply explain it to me, i have the FFB app, is that what you mean?
If i have a car and it clips at 100 FFB in game and lower it to 60 its fine, but with the data file FFB multi i can lower that so i can keep the game car at 100 FFB. It may all have the same result but nothing is ever explained well in games and AC is no different.

 

[james]

Kunos, as most other develepers, got there start as modders! They all play the guessing game when it comes to the tires.

 

[apex11]

There's an app that adjusts each car's ffb multiplier, it's only as hidden as any other app... iirc it also has a default mapping of +- or something.

So with this app i can change a cars steering ratio and lock as well?

 

[Stereo]

So with this app i can change a cars steering ratio and lock as well?

No, only other thing it does is let you adjust the global ffb effects (enhanced understeer, road effect, kerb effect, slip effect)

 

[apex11]

No, only other thing it does is let you adjust the global ffb effects (enhanced understeer, road effect, kerb effect, slip effect)

OK so as i said within the car data files is hidden stuff that is useful. So quite why Gary felt the need belittling me....
I know what the FFB app does as i have used it.... it does not help with steering assist or steering ratio or steering lock..

 

[Stereo]

Probably cause you keep saying "ffb multiplier" in the list of things you wanted to change

 

[garyjpaterson]

OK so as i said within the car data files is hidden stuff that is useful. So quite why Gary felt the need belittling me....
I know what the FFB app does as i have used it.... it does not help with steering assist or steering ratio or steering lock..

lol, 'hidden stuff'.

There really should be no need to be messing with steering lock/ratios, these are designed into the cars and are suitible for most circuit 95% of the time. Sure some race cars you can choose another rack but for the most part its totally fine.

As for steer assist, I'd quite enjoy to hear what car you use this for and what you think it does.

 

[apex11]

lol, 'hidden stuff'.

There really should be no need to be messing with steering lock/ratios, these are designed into the cars and are suitible for most circuit 95% of the time. Sure some race cars you can choose another rack but for the most part its totally fine.

As for steer assist, I'd quite enjoy to hear what car you use this for and what you think it does.

As i gather Stephano said al be it in bad English, say an F1 car has high load and forces at peak downforce in cornering, so as not clip or destroy lesser wheels its lighter at slower corners, i dislike that so steer assist simply lowered acts as making the wheel heavier at slow corners yet balances it out at the high speed corners as you simply are not bumping up FFB gain which in turn makes it clip at maximum cornering force ......RSS use it as well...
There is stephano's post somewhere on the web i'll see if i can find it again...

FFB gain simply upping that isn't the best way...

 

[apex11]

oh found it...

here is what it is actually doing, if you dont already know, its the only ffb parameter in the car data files other than ffmult which is obviously just a multiplier.

"Steer assist is a variable power steering. It doesnt work on speed but it works on the amount of force. It's basically a gamma function, I use gamma functions a lot in AC.
So let's say you have a FF input from -1 to 1 (it's the job of the ffmult to get the actual torque and scale it down to a normalized -1 , 1 range)... the resulting FF after the steer assist will be:

assist_ff=input_ff^steer_assist

The job of steer assist is to allow the driver to feel the steer "full" at low speed with cars with heavy downforce without killing his arms if the car is going through a corner at 200kmh. The rule for steer assist is very simple:

Are you doing a F1/LMS or other VERY high downforce car designed in the last 10/15 years?

yes ? experiment with steer assist value below 1 only AFTER you've tuned the ffmult to give you a good range of forces in the -1..1 area
no? steer assist is 1"

http://www.assettocorsa.net/forum/i...concerning-ffb-differences.26638/#post-543793

 

[apex11]

I use it on F1 cars and cars with high downforce like Stephano suggests...