Can a mod ever be better than the actual dev car?

[apex11]

I have found a few mods that IMO are a better drive than the in game cars..... Anyone else agree on this?
Case in point for me is the Audi LMS 2016.... the game car is good, but the mod car on RD is sublime..
Its the feel it gives on and over the limit. modders were/are AGU i think....wonderful car..

 

[djtopa]

IMO no...I tried only legit car mods from here(thanks to modders for hard work) and yes some of them have better graphics etc...but none of them IMO has as good FFB and physics like Kunos cars...I dont know somehow FFB is always weak and lacks feel of official cars.And almost always I have to turn it up like 110% (on official cars I put it between 90-100%....and still I dont get that good feeling...and physics are somehow twitchy I dont know how to explain.I never drove a mod car that has that sweet balance like Kunos...and then sounds,Lots of mod cars use Kunos sounds and to me its souch a imeersion let down when I hear sound from Kunos car I derive a lot in in mod one.Its a lot better when they use a sound of car I dont drive in AC LOL.
this is only my view I'm far from Alien or modder...just a SP player who like to drive so maybe its a placebo LOL

 

[AccAkut]

Well i got the mod from this site.
Wasn't there a few cars that Kunos used as DLC that modders made originally?

The Urquattro street car, the S1 rally Quattro, the Porsche 917/30, the Porsche 962 (tho it was bought an an rather early stage), the Mazda 787B (bought after release), Mazda Miata (same), R34 Skyline come to my mind

Apart from this Kunos has directly outsourced many cars to "modders"/freelancers, if you pay attention on the credits when you close the game you'll see the long list of names... some may be familiar.

 

[apex11]

IMO no...I tried only legit car mods from here(thanks to modders for hard work) and yes some of them have better graphics etc...but none of them IMO has as good FFB and physics like Kunos cars...I dont know somehow FFB is always weak and lacks feel of official cars.And almost always I have to turn it up like 110% (on official cars I put it between 90-100%....and still I dont get that good feeling...and physics are somehow twitchy I dont know how to explain.I never drove a mod car that has that sweet balance like Kunos...and then sounds,Lots of mod cars use Kunos sounds and to me its souch a imeersion let down when I hear sound from Kunos car I derive a lot in in mod one.Its a lot better when they use a sound of car I dont drive in AC LOL.
this is only my view I'm far from Alien or modder...just a SP player who like to drive so maybe its a placebo LOL

Not even sure what the kunos sounds are anymore i switched to fonseckers sound mods a while back! lol..

 

[natedogg1867]

The Urquattro street car, the S1 rally Quattro, the Porsche 917/30, the Porsche 962 (tho it was bought an an rather early stage), the Mazda 787B (bought after release), Mazda Miata (same), R34 Skyline come to my mind

Apart from this Kunos has directly outsourced many cars to "modders"/freelancers, if you pay attention on the credits when you close the game you'll see the long list of names... some may be familiar.

To clarify and be clear here, since it wasnt apparent from your comment...

Kunos only buys & uses the 3d model. They completely redo the sounds & physics in house, and do not re-use those from any of the mods. Beyond that, even the 3d models are touched up to 'Kunos standards' or optimized where needed.

So while the 787B or Miura started out as mods, they drive and sound different from their Kunos counterparts.

Beyond that, it may be a bit disingenuous to say that the 917/30 started out as a mod. I dont think that car was even mentioned before the Porsche announcement... and by that time, it was already well known that the_meco was working for Kunos in an official capacity.

 

[dud]

Kunos only buys & uses the 3d model. They completely redo the sounds & physics in house, and do not re-use those from any of the mods. Beyond that, even the 3d models are touched up to 'Kunos standards' or optimized where needed.

So while the 787B or Miura started out as mods, they drive and sound different from their Kunos counterparts.

In the case of the 787 there also is the question whether Kunos' version is better from a data standpoint. I know that it is supposed to represent a slightly different version of the car, but still...

 

[Stereo]

Beyond that, it may be a bit disingenuous to say that the 917/30 started out as a mod. I dont think that car was even mentioned before the Porsche announcement... and by that time, it was already well known that the_meco was working for Kunos in an official capacity.

Definitely was being built to be a mod, as far as I know the AMG GT3 (I forget what the car's actually called, it's the newer one) is the first that the_meco made directly for Kunos.

 

[natedogg1867]

Definitely was being built to be a mod, as far as I know the AMG GT3 (I forget what the car's actually called, it's the newer one) is the first that the_meco made directly for Kunos.

I would still say that is disingenuous, but this is just semantics at this point.

The 917/30 was never released free to the public as a mod, so, how can it be a mod? When he was working on it, Aris likely got his hands on the physics well before the Porsche deal was announced. So it seems doubtful that multiple versions of the physics were done for it.

Pretty pointless overall though, since the 917/30 is quite different to any of the other cars that started out and were released as finished mods. You could make that point about the 962 from Patrik Sander though, since that was much further along dev wise when he went silent presumably from Kunos buying up the mod.

 

[Mirta27]

The 917/30 started out as a mod, which is the reason why it can do this:

Kunos never models opening bonnets or trunks on their cars, only the doors to save time. Granted, very few mods offer this feature, but it's something only mods can do atm. Of course, the rest of the car is developed mostly by kunos themselves, in the physics department I'd prolly argue the stuff from ASR, VRC and RSS.

Tbh almost every top quality modded formula 1 car is better than the ones released by kunos, as kunos is seemingly afraid of having a realistic CL (coefficient of lift). This means the kunos formula 1 cars have less downforce than the real cars, kunos compensates by giving the tyres more grip than they should have.

 

[apex11]

Out of interest why do you think kunos or any dev would make an F1 car have less downforce in a sim?

 

[Stereo]

Probably cause Ferrari told them that's how much downforce it actually has, and it's more accurate than 3rd party sources.

 

[Mirta27]

The Kunos F2004 has less downforce than all other cars on here, except the Kunos SF15-T. The ASR F2004 has the most out of all.
The Kunos F2004 and SF15-T both have significantly less downforce than modded F1 cars of the same year, ASR F2004 and VRC FW37, respectively.
In fact, even Senna's old McLaren by VRC has more downforce than Kunos' 2004 and 2015 F1 cars. Somehow the 2009 FW31 also has more when the rule changes significantly reduced downforce after the 2008 season?

So either VRC gets all their cars consistently wrong (and is somehow realistically in line with the CL found on ASR's F2004) or Kunos has too little downforce.

 

[apex11]

Probably cause Ferrari told them that's how much downforce it actually has, and it's more accurate than 3rd party sources.

But if we know one thing about F1 cars they have an obscene amount of downforce...

 

[garyjpaterson]

But if we know one thing about F1 cars they have an obscene amount of downforce...

True, but there are a lot of cars with much higher - lift coefficients too.

 

[Qazdar Karim]

The Kunos F2004 has less downforce than all other cars on here, except the Kunos SF15-T. The ASR F2004 has the most out of all.
The Kunos F2004 and SF15-T both have significantly less downforce than modded F1 cars of the same year, ASR F2004 and VRC FW37, respectively.
In fact, even Senna's old McLaren by VRC has more downforce than Kunos' 2004 and 2015 F1 cars. Somehow the 2009 FW31 also has more when the rule changes significantly reduced downforce after the 2008 season?

So either VRC gets all their cars consistently wrong (and is somehow realistically in line with the CL found on ASR's F2004) or Kunos has too little downforce.

The MP4/4 has a peak CL that is comparable to the FW31, but if you compare the aeromap's average for the same ride height range, you will see that the latter produces more downforce.

I don't claim to have exact informations for each car i have worked on (and it would be naive to think so), but i have gathered enough data to believe that kunos cars produce way less downforce than their real life counterparts. But this doesn't necessarely mean that some kunos f1 cars aren't enjoyable.

 

[apex11]

True, but there are a lot of cars with much higher - lift coefficients too.

I think with me the main thing i really always need is that cornering force, almost the abilty to lean on the wheel, not clipping force, but that nice build up of forces.
Without that i really miss the feeling of real life driving...with it its sublime.
I noticed that a lot of F1 cars in sims have very light steering forces which maybe accurate, but in sims most of us don't have the other forces like real G forces....
Its a tricky one and its personal preference, but i do always look for that lovely build up of force as you corner...

Some mods have "steering assist" which i have found to be the way to tighten up the feel i was missing on some cars....
I know steering assist on sims sounds like a forza thing....but its not like that at all... the RSS mods all have a steering assist option from 100 to 0... i find about 60-80 is right..

Kunos added it in the game but made it impossible to access...which is weird..

 

[David Dominguez]

So either VRC gets all their cars consistently wrong (and is somehow realistically in line with the CL found on ASR's F2004) or Kunos has too little downforce.

2nd.

 

[Stereo]

Kunos added it in the game but made it impossible to access...which is weird..

Cause it does the same thing as the ffb lookup table, except less flexible and you'd have to change it on every car. It's not a physical feature of any steering system.

 

[apex11]

Cause it does the same thing as the ffb lookup table, except less flexible and you'd have to change it on every car. It's not a physical feature of any steering system.

We are not playing with a physical car though either.
Anything that can help the feeling is good in my view.
It's OK for people that have never actually driven a racing car or even a good kart in anger, they don't miss what we miss in the sim...the feel of build up of forces and grip...

And its not the FFB look up table, whatever that is... steer assist if different altogether, its not the FFB multiplier..

 

[rikirk]

Joe, I completely agree with you. In fact, the Audi MOD drives in the way you say, building load until you feel you get to the limit and take action to control it in a natural way, almost by instinct.
I thought that particular model was then published by KS under their own specs.
I understand now it's not and that's why I don't enjoy it the same way.

 

[apex11]

Using content manager some cars you are able to get into the data file for the car, in there you see FFB multi, Steering assist, steering ratio and lock.
They are the key to sorting out any car that has bad FFB pretty much, but not many mods allow you to get to those bits of data.

I have had mods that FFB is too weak or strong and simple change of the FFB multi and its sorted.
I expect to maybe in game to drop the FFB gain per car to 80 odd...but if i am down to say 60 i will see if i can access data file and if so reduce FFB multi.
Just not sure why this is not in the FFB options in AC...