Buri's Rig

[Michal Burisin]

Hi,

last month I bought my first wheel Thrustmaster T-GT and got hooked up in no time , then I figured I would need a rig, so I started with Next Level Racing GTUltimate V2. Despite good reviews, I haven’t liked it, the seat had a lot of flex and weird shape for me, so I returned it. Ever since I’m reading through the forums figuring out how to improve my setup, which is desk and wooden chair right now .

I have just ordered rseat N1 and HPP 3P-PRX-SE pedals as T-GT pedals were lacking, now I have some time meanwhile the orders arrives, so I’m figuring what to do next and tactile seems to be next best upgrade, so driving doesn’t feel so “dead”, although even without tactile this is most fun I had on PC ever .

As for the plans, I will be keeping T-GT steering wheel for now. Currently I’m building DYI handbrake, I have some parts ordered, so when I have some progress, I will put some photos up, maybe with little step by step tutorial if it will be interesting for anyone (I’m total beginner so I will be figuring everything out as I go). It will be simple load cell handbrake.

So far I ordered Handbrake, Load Cell, Controller Board, I hope it all fits together. I will solve mechanical part when I get my hands on the handbrake. I was thinking about hydraulics, but it seems lot more complicated and expensive. Especially when for example HE are using also just load cells in their top of the line pedals, so I figured it must be good enough for DYI handbrake as well .

For now I’m running laptop with CORE I7 and Geforce 1060 6GB and 24’’ monitor. This will be my next goal after tactile, but I will probably wait until summer or later when new graphic cards arrive and TVs with HDMI 2.1 with VRR (variable refresh rate) and possibly VR, this will be long wait, but I will at least have some time to gather some finances .

Then I would like to get DD wheel and in more distant future I would like to get seat mover, probably Next Level Racing Motion Platform V3 as it integrates with rseat N1 quite nicely. My inspiration is Diablo2112 rig, it looks absolutely fantastic!

I will be eternally grateful for any help / advice anyone can give. Many thanks!

 

[Mr Latte]

SSW using .wav really opens the door to what we can do with effects creation.
Sinewaves are generally best I think. You get less harmonics with Triangle, have a read here for some info.
Single or pure waveforms are rather basic. Using the harmonics, octaves and 1/3 octaves are things I experimented with regards trying different fundamental frequencies. I found this useful to have within a waveform Hz that suited the biggest BK and also harmonics of those Hz that suited more limited or entry level tactile.

For me the effects Is still an on-going process but Ive really fussed a lot with them as finding a balance in what works well for BK or TST models can be more difficult than some may imagine. Easily over 1000 hours put into Audacity and SSW trials now.

The majority of effects I have with some new improvements in the last week or two have really come on well. I have started creating the variations from the effect masters for different dB and frequency shifts. Then need to do configurations like 2 channel 6 channel etc. Some of this is very laborious, with hundreds of files needing to be exported. I will begin on a new engine based effect soon as well.

I am aiming to get my seat frame section started soon. Need to have all the bits and then get suitable length bolts etc. Think I will order some Gladen Aero soon too. Certainly will share work on the build, but need about £300 more on other materials. I bought quite a few audio hardware bits past couple of months, not yet ready to fully use these but they set things back a bit for the seat section build. Could be another month or more, its costing quite a lot to do. Seats isolation, pads, materials purchased so far is over £400 as its quite extreme. On top of that is BK brackets that were not cheap neither at about £110 for the 2x LFE and 1x Concert fixings.The seat will move a bit with weight transfer based on the isolators but I hope it isn't too much. From a build perspective, it will be unique time will tell how well it goes or if I need a different solution.

 

[Michal Burisin]

SSW using .wav really opens the door to what we can do with effects creation.
Sinewaves are generally best I think. You get less harmonics with Triangle, have a read here for some info.
Single or pure waveforms are rather basic. Using the harmonics, octaves and 1/3 octaves are things I experimented with regards trying different fundamental frequencies. I found this useful to have within a waveform Hz that suited the biggest BK and also harmonics of those Hz that suited more limited or entry level tactile.

For me the effects Is still an on-going process but Ive really fussed a lot with them as finding a balance in what works well for BK or TST models can be more difficult than some may imagine. Easily over 1000 hours put into Audacity and SSW trials now.

The majority of effects I have with some new improvements in the last week or two have really come on well. I have started creating the variations from the effect masters for different dB and frequency shifts. Then need to do configurations like 2 channel 6 channel etc. Some of this is very laborious, with hundreds of files needing to be exported. I will begin on a new engine based effect soon as well.

I am aiming to get my seat frame section started soon. Need to have all the bits and then get suitable length bolts etc. Think I will order some Gladen Aero soon too. Certainly will share work on the build, but need about £300 more on other materials. I bought quite a few audio hardware bits past couple of months, not yet ready to fully use these but they set things back a bit for the seat section build. Could be another month or more, its costing quite a lot to do. Seats isolation, pads, materials purchased so far is over £400 as its quite extreme. On top of that is BK brackets that were not cheap neither at about £110 for the 2x LFE and 1x Concert fixings.The seat will move a bit with weight transfer based on the isolators but I hope it isn't too much. From a build perspective, it will be unique time will tell how well it goes or if I need a different solution.

Hey, I made little bit of progress here.



It's starting to come together! I'm looking forward to testing your files, it will be interesting to try out stereo setup. As you began creating lot of effects with different gains and frequency shifts, it must be laborious as hell, thanks for creating and sharing these files. Wouldn't be easier to do some info on how to change dB gain + frequency shift with some basic guidelines, for example: "On weaker units lower gain and shift frequency higher" etc.? People interested in this topic would surely manage to do it themselves. Others who want plug and play solution would probably wouldn't be bothered. Just a suggestion as I can imagine it must eat up lot of your time.

Regarding parts & hardware, it's really costly as you describe, I hope you manage to get all necessary parts to start the final build.

In image of my current progress, the seat section is temporary, as I will be reworking entire section once I get the aluminium seat.

I have done first testing today and was really disappointed. It felt somehow wrong - I was testing just 2 BK Concerts. After a while I found out, the second BK is playing only around 60 % of power of the first. I was first worried, that BK is messed up. Then I started testing further, when I switched cables in amp, the other was playing weaker, so I started to suspect that amp is wrong. Then I figured the problem is in input signal. I tried 2 soundcards and couldn't get rid of it in any way.

Then it occured to me, that problem might be in Ultralink MS8000 splitter and bingo, problem is there. I had plugged cables in the amp which were coming from splitter from left channel only. I was asuming, when the signal gets split, it would be exactly the same. But the one was weaker than the other.

I still have yet to figure out, if there is problem with some slots, cables etc. or whether it is normal problem for passive splitters. It won't be problem for me in the end, as the splitted signal will go to BK Advance and TST and it won't be problem to fine tune gain via DSP. But I noticed this problem when using same units on same channel, otherwise I wouldn't have found out.

If this is standard splitter behaviour, this kind of sucks. As I was thinking that I would add another TST for wheel section and if I wanted to split engine channel to three places using the splitter, the signal will get weaker each time it gets split. It won't be problem to compensate via DSP, but I don't like this very much.

When I got it working correctly, I'm really happy with the performance. I was just testing some frequencies and it's plenty strong and detailed, and what is much more important, it's very quiet! Separation could be better, but I will address this when reworking the seat section.

I noticed, that on BK Concert is making little bit different sliding noise when piston moves, which the other unit doesn't have. Maybe it would be good to lube it. Is there any guide how to do it? I see there are some holes, but I'm not sure where to put in the grease. Or would I need to dismantle it?

On the pedals plate we have discussed before, I have opted for 8 mm aluminium EN AW-5754 which is compound of AlMg3 and should be quite stronger than pure aluminium, I hope to get it in around 2 weeks. They can't make the long cut in the middle so I will need to do it later somewhere else. But at least I will have some comparison.

 

[Ceolmor]

This tactile stuff can be very frustrating. The setup on your seat section is looking good though.

I dismantled my Buttkicker Advances this week to check and lube due to differences in the noise and power output of each. They really are quite simple inside.

WARNING:
1. If your Buttkickers are new, check you don't void any warranty by taking them apart.
2. I am only an amateur who doesn't really know what he is doing.

I removed the 4 long bolts at the top and removed the lid. My main outer casing then comes away from the base (except still connected by electrical wires), but that might not happen on the BK Concert. I found a cylinder of solid metal (a piston) inside what I assume is a circular magnet.

Before doing anything, check if there is a mark at the top of the piston to indicate which way up it goes. Mine just had a permanent ink squiggle written on it. If there is nothing, put a bit of masking tape or something on the top so you know which end is which.

So then I:

• Slipped the piston out.
• Wiped clean the piston and the inside of the magnet chamber.
• Put a thin, even layer of lube on the inside edge of the chamber and the outsides of the piston, like if you were greasing a baking tray.
• Put the piston back in, same way up.
• Wiped off any excess grease.
• Bolted the case back together again.

I used white grease with lithium that I already had. Didn't make any difference. The grease seemed quite thin. I will try again when the grease recommended by the UK supplier of Buttkickers arrives.

 

[Michal Burisin]

This tactile stuff can be very frustrating. The setup on your seat section is looking good though.

I dismantled my Buttkicker Advances this week to check and lube due to differences in the noise and power output of each. They really are quite simple inside.

WARNING:
1. If your Buttkickers are new, check you don't void any warranty by taking them apart.
2. I am only an amateur who doesn't really know what he is doing.

I removed the 4 long bolts at the top and removed the lid. My main outer casing then comes away from the base (except still connected by electrical wires), but that might not happen on the BK Concert. I found a cylinder of solid metal (a piston) inside what I assume is a circular magnet.

Before doing anything, check if there is a mark at the top of the piston to indicate which way up it goes. Mine just had a permanent ink squiggle written on it. If there is nothing, put a bit of masking tape or something on the top so you know which end is which.

So then I:

• Slipped the piston out.
• Wiped clean the piston and the inside of the magnet chamber.
• Put a thin, even layer of lube on the inside edge of the chamber and the outsides of the piston, like if you were greasing a baking tray.
• Put the piston back in, same way up.
• Wiped off any excess grease.
• Bolted the case back together again.

I used white grease with lithium that I already had. Didn't make any difference. The grease seemed quite thin. I will try again when the grease recommended by the UK supplier of Buttkickers arrives.

Thanks for info, I'll leave it be for now, as the difference is really small and as the BKs are new, it might also settle in time, but this tutorial will come in handy later.

Regarding splitter, I didn't read manual properly and I had it connected all wrong , correct connection scheme for copying channels is here. I found out, that MS8000 splitter can be also used for mixing channels, this will come handy because I think, I will need to combine SimVibe with SSW to get good result. Unfortunately either soft has something good, but also something very wrong or something missing

I will probably take deceleration and shifting from SSW, maybe also wheel slip.

But I prefer SimVibe for engine and general bumps & road effects. This will be pain in the ass to set it up, I will need 3 soundcards, some splitters, lot of cables etc. which really sucks, but at the moment, there's no solution which I could be happy with...

 

[Mr Latte]

Hey, I made little bit of progress here.

View attachment 252229

It's starting to come together! I'm looking forward to testing your files, it will be interesting to try out stereo setup. As you began creating lot of effects with different gains and frequency shifts, it must be laborious as hell, thanks for creating and sharing these files. Wouldn't be easier to do some info on how to change dB gain + frequency shift with some basic guidelines, for example: "On weaker units lower gain and shift frequency higher" etc.? People interested in this topic would surely manage to do it themselves. Others who want plug and play solution would probably wouldn't be bothered. Just a suggestion as I can imagine it must eat up lot of your time.

Hi Michal, I would like to do a thread for the effects and look at each individually. Within this "unofficial thread" cover SSW in more depth from the perspective of my own usage or findings. Yes, the thread could also bring some basics for using Audacity regards using the channels and increase or lower the amplitude . Also in which way to export the file for the user's setup configuration.

I have begun doing what will be final files for each effect and the solution used.
Each effect made has (45) possible options created to enable people to find an amplitude that suits their hardware. (Potentially 2 will be most commonly used). Its then upto the user to compare 9 variations of the effect if they want to. The variations in frequencies will greatly alter the feeling produced and enable most users to find something that better suits the make/model of tactile they have and their own user preference.

With these then a user can determine what SSW slider values work best for them.
We can apply a dB range that enables a user to find a good energy/strength with SSW at 50% or use a (lower amplitude range) and then increase SSW sliders more. Having this gets around any issues with SSW clipping of the telemetry data that Andre recently highlighted but also amplifier clipping with excessive signal gains going into the amps.





Many Hours Testing
I can't keep seeking to improve and not release, which has been to some extents the case thus far as I have sought with limited feedback and my own TST/BK units tried to make an effect that works well for both typical transducers and piston based shakers.
The fact that one type does best with more punch or low-end frequencies yet the other brings more finesse and detail with mid to higher frequencies. This means how the effect feels varies on each unit.

These files will give people a basis of something to use and improve over the default files Andre has. Its possible more improved files could be done later based on the general feedback or changes people want. Andre may even bring new files of his own or someone else might.


I think most people want easily applied but available solutions than to spend long periods of time creating their own effects. As how many people are actively trying to create effects or share them? Indeed the point you raise that some people may want to position certain effects to specific channels and units they have still remains an important factor. Its alien also to Simvibe users.

Even something simple like braking how should I apply this to my own files? Some people may want it operating fully in the front channels, some may want 80/20 or 60/40 even 50/50 ratios in power/amplitude for pedals and seat tactile. Some may want the braking also to operate on a large central BK unit under the seat perhaps but then also on the main 4.

So indeed the user for a specific deployment of effects has to learn how to copy and paste the wav into the channels they want and set the amplitude to give the ratio of power desired in each channel via Audacity.

In truth, it sounds more complicated than it is but its something I find odd why even Andre has not bothered to do a tutorial on to help progress self-effects creation by users. Nor the issues with effects going to incorrect channels.

I highlighted this in part for those with a configuration using 2 channel front back. As currently, they have to have effects deployed differently than the traditional 2 channel stereo option that comes available. Yet most will not have a clue when only buying into the software how to do this.


Interesting to see and read what your doing.
Look forward to your own build progress and new bits coming.
Lubricating the BK is something that looks to be a good idea. I am curious what BK themselves might say about the Concert / LFE and using spray applicator just down the air vents/holes with short bursts?

I have read some doing this but have not contacted BK on the matter, if recommended.
It's going to be a pain in the backside opening each unit up.

 

[Michal Burisin]

So after longer time I got some update.

Last isolators came so I could put it together for first build.

Now I'm running 4x BK Concerts for chassis mode and 2x BK Advance + 2x TST 239 for dual role for seat and pedals.

I have done initial testing, so far with SimVibe + Project Cars 2. I have issue with SimVibe, that it has some bug in PC2 and the left rear wheel doesn't work in chassis mode, in other games it works ok, so I hope they will be able to fix the bug.

I ignored this problem and played with settings for couple of hours and got to the point where I'm very happy with the result

It's very natural and when racing, I often forget that it's on , but I take this as plus as it's doing what the mind is expecting from it. I tried to turn it off and the rig feels dead suddenly

With this normal operation, I get really quiet operation and with my isolators setup, I believe I will get the vibration going to the floor to zero or really minimal values.

I'm little underwhelmed at volume / output, I can get nowhere near brain melting vibrations @Mr Latte described somewhere before

I have tried to crank the volume higher, but I'm starting to get real bad banging, I'm not sure if it's Concerts bottoming out but I suspect the problem might be with their mounting. On pedals, I have them on 8 mm aluminium plate.

And on seat, I have them on 5 mm steel plates. I suspect that at certain volume these plates start to bend and catch vibration causing pang. I will have to investigate more, but I think I will get these plate supported by some profile to make sure it's super solid.

I have the pedals & seat on these isolators.

These work great as they allow for lot of vertical movement but almost none front to back movement. I may have went too soft on the pedals section, as I grabbed 43 kg version, which feels quite squishy so the pedals get lot of side to side movement - it's especially visible as I have the pedals inverted - the top of the pedals construction can move +- 3 cm side to side if pushed on one side with very little effort, however when driving it doesnt move this much. From vibration it gets movement +- 1 cm side to side and I can't feel it. This squishiness work great, at least for me. It gives you heightened sense of vibration & movement - not the bad kind @Mr Latte sent before in some video of rig jumping on springs

I can get more tactile feedback on lower output and the difference is quite drastic. It smoothens the bumps so they feel more deeper.

I will experiment with this setup:

Isolators in opposition - one pushing, the other pulling so it's in constant pressure. When it doesn't have this "pulling" force (pull plates together), it could produce some resonance. This works nicely for seat, as this "pulling" force is done by persons weight.

Once I tried tactile on pedals platform lying on floor and I didn't get any feedback. It's so rock solid it didn't moved at all even with Concerts running on full power It even didn't transfer much energy to the ground. I think they run ok, as when I tried them in hand, they feel really powerful. Even if I don't manage get drastically imporved volume with changes I'm gonna try, I think it won't be such problem as the tactile levels I got felt very natural.

I'm getting pretty decent L / R separation, so I decided not to cut the plate in half, especially now, when I see that even this 8 mm plate is catching resonance when not supported by profiles.

Regarding software, I have tried only SimVibe so far, as I wanted to get feeling for L / R and F / B separation. However I miss in SimVibe some features, so I will probably have to run SimVibe and SSW simultaneously.

From SimVibe I get good engine + road effects.

From SSW I will get shift effect, deceleration for braking and possibly wheel slip.

I will have to experiment further. In SimVibe only I miss the braking effect the most and I haven't found way how to replicate it. But I'm little worried with SSW deceleration implementation, it starts to kick in quite strongly even when decelerating when I take my foot of gas. I want this effect to be associated with braking, thus little bit less sensitive. I will have to experiment with this more.

Also the shift in SimVibe is really crappy, I don't know why, but each shift feels different and perceived output is very unbalanced, the response from strongest shift can be double of output of weakest one, it just feels wrong as each shift should be the same.

I will need to get another soundcard - 3 for tactile in the end.

I will need to combine the outputs of 2 soundcards. Is there any simple solution for mixing 2x 3,5 mm jacks? Something like in image below - however I think this is just splitter so it will produce 2 mono channels?

I think I don't need any knobs for tuning, I will do the balancing in Windows speaker properties.

If I won't find any easier solution, I might use 2x Behringer Ultralink MS8000 to mix the channels. I would like to keep it simple and use just XLR cables. Those Art Splitmix4 you are using big jacks and I would like to avoid another layer of different cables. With Ultralinks I will have just XLR to 3,5 mm jack cables and I have already all cables for 1 soundcard.

So this is all for the update for now, I have stripped the rig bare again and will be implementing some changes. I hope I'm getting closer, as constant mantling and dismantling is getting tiresome, I want to get some racing in after couple of months

I will be also working on platform for rig, as it got so heavy I can't move it, it's probably around 90 - 100 kg. I bought some rubber plate for covering MDF board, but so far it smells really bad, I hope it will air out, did you have the same problem @Ceolmor?

 

[Ceolmor]

Thanks for the detailed feedback @Michal Burisin

I have done initial testing, so far with SimVibe + Project Cars 2. I have issue with SimVibe, that it has some bug in PC2 and the left rear wheel doesn't work in chassis mode, in other games it works ok, so I hope they will be able to fix the bug.

I'm pretty sure my left rear Buttkicker in Simvibe chassis mode is working in Pcars2, although as I get very little left/right separation it is hard to tell. If you test each Buttkicker individually in the Simcommander software does the rear left feel the same as the others in chassis mode?

It's very natural and when racing, I often forget that it's on , but I take this as plus as it's doing what the mind is expecting from it. I tried to turn it off and the rig feels dead suddenly

I agree. You spend all that time and money on tactile, but then want to not be very aware of it when racing. If you become consciously aware of it then it is usually because it is doing something wrong. I sometimes wonder if it was really worth it, but then when you turn it off you are really aware of what it adds to the whole experience.

I'm little underwhelmed at volume / output, I can get nowhere near brain melting vibrations @Mr Latte described somewhere before
I have tried to crank the volume higher, but I'm starting to get real bad banging, I'm not sure if it's Concerts bottoming out but I suspect the problem might be with their mounting. On pedals, I have them on 8 mm aluminium plate.

Are you really running the volume level in Windows Sound at only 33? What level are you running the iNukes? Currently, I have Windows Sound at 100 and iNukes at 12 o'clock. It also feels underpowered for some effects, but I too get problems with piston pang or rattles from the rig if I crank it up any higher.

I'm getting pretty decent L / R separation, so I decided not to cut the plate in half, especially now, when I see that even this 8 mm plate is catching resonance when not supported by profiles.
Regarding software, I have tried only SimVibe so far, as I wanted to get feeling for L / R and F / B separation.

I too have been running mostly SimVibe, as I find it quicker and easier to get the tactile working reasonably with SimVibe than SSW. My experimenting with SSW so far has not been very successful, although it probably has more potential. I'm not getting much, if any, left/right separation in either software.

Also the shift in SimVibe is really crappy, I don't know why, but each shift feels different and perceived output is very unbalanced, the response from strongest shift can be double of output of weakest one, it just feels wrong as each shift should be the same.

For me in SimVibe gearshift is one of the best effects. This may be because I have a big BK LFE under my seat which is the best of all my Buttkickers. It works well when driving paddle shift or sequential shift cars, but not really on manual H-shifter cars. Try having two gear shifts added to your Simcommander profile, one with the frequency at 30hz and the other at 50hz. Then in the iNuke Remote Connect Parametric EQ, add a little boost in type PEQ (maybe 2db to 5db) at 30hz and 50hz with Quality at 10. Test on the Dallara Indycar in Pcars2, or any paddle shift car in AC.

So this is all for the update for now, I have stripped the rig bare again and will be implementing some changes. I hope I'm getting closer, as constant mantling and dismantling is getting tiresome, I want to get some racing in after couple of months

I totally agree. I am currently trying to get a balance between constantly mucking about with tactile, and actually driving.

I will be also working on platform for rig, as it got so heavy I can't move it, it's probably around 90 - 100 kg. I bought some rubber plate for covering MDF board, but so far it smells really bad, I hope it will air out, did you have the same problem @Ceolmor?

Yes. My small room stank of rubber for ages. I think it's died down now, but there is now an odd smell, maybe of stale piss. But perhaps that's not coming from the platform. Unless your MDF platform is on wheels, I'm not sure it will help with moving the rig.

Maybe we could share some of our Simcommander profiles through the the Owner Club facility. I will put some of mine on there titled "Ceolmor" for you to have a look at to compare. What sims do you use in addition to Pcars2?

 

[Mr Latte]

So after longer time I got some update.

Last isolators came so I could put it together for first build.

Now I'm running 4x BK Concerts for chassis mode and 2x BK Advance + 2x TST 239 for dual role for seat and pedals.

Excellent arrangment of hardware for sure.
The TST T239 you can keep almost operating as normal, perhaps some (EQ tweaking via DSP) to sustain better the control of some mid range bass frequencies if they are too sharp around the 60-80Hz. You may find it good to try using the Crossover for the 4x CE to minimize the range they work in and again specific EQ on these units to shape the bass how you want it. All down to preference how you want the two units to work together in a Dual Role setup but the BK LFE really drops in performance above 60Hz (perhaps more the the CE models) compared to my TST439. The CE is a unit I will get around to properly comparing to the BK LFE in the near future.

I'm little underwhelmed at volume / output, I can get nowhere near brain melting vibrations @Mr Latte described somewhere before

Perhaps, because your using Simvibe with whatever effects settings you use and whatever level you have the output mixer within Simvibe set to. My remarks about this was in reference to SSW. As stated before, with specialist .wav files we can apply more control over specific frequencies and amplitude an effect will use. Yet you continue to focus more at this stage with what you can do in Simvibe.

A typical Simvibe user hasn't really a clue what Hz the effect is generating or what amplitude the Hz within it are peaking at.

Can you tell me what frequencies and dB they have for any of Simvibes effects, can we go to just certain frequencies and have that effect boost those but maybe maintain others?

This is my point as with SSW we build the effect beforehand to have the amplitude and contain the desired Hz energy in forming its general character. With the monitoring, we can then verify from the effects creation to determine exactly how and what energy it is outputting for all the frequencies. This is a very reason I am creating hundreds of files for SSW to give people the ability to have an effect at very different dB settings and with shifts in the Hz to find a set for them that seems a perfect balance to suit the tactile they are using.

If by all means someone wants an effects master .wav to shake the crap out of them, then hey its audio we can create it man. If you want your left steering inputs to bark like a dog and your right to meow like a cat, we can, again with SSW its "audio". So in some ways we avoid the restricted tone generation that does its own magic internally behind the scenes in Simvibe. A user can set a min max range for an effect in Simvibe to use but as I keep saying, this is not the only Hz it will use nor can you tell it to boost specific Hz more than others. Both options/solutions have their own benefits and drawbacks. A .wav file can have much more complexity or character introduced into the sensation the effect will deliver than what Simvibes tone generation does on the fly that people dont even really know properly what its doing.

If I take your settings in Simvibe and monitor the audio channels I could easily see the frequency output compared to what SSW is doing with whatever files I may be using but say we want to compare how/what each is doing, yeah its time-consuming but not a problem for me to do.


So if we wanted I could see what the average response Simvibe is generating for an effect and car but as it works dynamically to the physics in how it generates the tones. Then due to this, the response varies based on the XYZ values and speed etc for how it creates the tone. However with monitoring this, its possible if desired, with effects to see the min-max values for frequencies that Simvibe is typically generating for it (based of course on the user settings, sim used and car driven). It would then, in theory, be possible to take 4-5 of these responses generated to record each, then compare them and create an average based min-max frequency response from those. This could then be saved as a single .wav file to test or use in SSW if desired. Yet we cannot make a great effect for SSW via a specialised and more complexed .wav and try to get a similar sensation within SImvibe and its tone generation to replicate.

Now, I have not tried to do this, its not the approach I wanted to take as I see more potential with advanced learning to build effects from scratch and these use Hz within the effects master that can work for specific tactile models. That is one benefit we can try to apply to .wav is having the master effect created designed to work well on the tactile units. Simvibe does absolutely nothing to let a user manage its output for specific models or thier own performances.

However yes, if we wanted to try and replicate how a specific effect felt in Simvibe was, we could attempt to mimic the output character of that effect to help create a similar response based .wav for SSW.

Nobody Else Seems To Bother Trying To Create Their OWN .WAV?
Its very time consuming creating and testing effects in SSW and then trying these on different tactile. For good effects creation things I think are going okay, sure I keep finding new methods or ways to help improve but I have found using specific fundamental frequencies, with say 1/3rd octaves and monitoring or understanding how the harmonics work can help towards having an effect respond well for certain tactile.

Although much of testing is trial and error. Its really just about getting a sensation and character we think suits the effect it is for. If we want, we can make it as BASS heavy as we want or to crank the crap out of a unit. Spending a day with this it would be possible to build and create an effect in SSW to suit a specific tactile unit and to feel exactly how the user desires it to be or with EXTREME levels of energy pushing the unit to its max if that's the case. Yet for the files, I am doing to share with people I learned to place within the effects master low Hz and then also harmonics of these for the less capable units. So this, in theory, should allow a master effect have a decent operation on a good range of units, yet feel unique in their own way that those units generate and output them.

The approach I have been applying with SSW will let people determine this themselves to find how strong they want an effect and deterime in some ways what Hz it uses. This gives the user the control to feel the effect with a thicker/bass heavy sensation or to be lighter, less bass heavy and operate faster in its response. What suits the user is upto them and may vary on the hardware and preferences they have. But by eck they will have a good range of choice with multiple varations of dB and frequency control being offered in the files created. Some effects will suit having higher frequencies as (cycles per second) is speed related to the effects sensation as well as how bass heavy it may be.

However, nothing stops us from making updated or improved masters or of course how we use the effects over the channels for custom rigs be they simple or monster builds.
This is something I will cover in due course how to manage SSW files over the channels and make simple to understand or apply. Even building them for specific installations like our own . More and more is being learned with every session I look into tests, this will increase if I keep continuing but I need to bring the new files currently as they are to let people use and enjoy.

Although why I bother at times I wonder as really I could just focus on my own build and create effects for myself to enjoy and just let others stick to default SSW files or run with Simvibe. Their is certainly little thanks or benefits to the work and effort put into trying to improve things for others. Yet I try to bring something that has never been done before and get more potential out of SSW that even the developer of it does not seem to see for advanced tactile owners or is much even interested in achieving.

I have tried to crank the volume higher, but I'm starting to get real bad banging, I'm not sure if it's Concerts bottoming out but I suspect the problem might be with their mounting. On pedals, I have them on 8 mm aluminium plate.

When the rig is built and you're settled into it, then you can do final calibrating with the iNuke DSP.
So you can discover and reduce the specific frequencies that are causing the peaking with the settings and tone generation you are using. This is much easier for me with a DAW and monitoring the output as we can see everything. However, a user can set a crossover range via iNuke to test say an individual effect causing the unit to bottom. What you do then is to find within the range by continually narrowing it to discover which Hz are the culprits. Once you find the Hz range to address, you can use the PEQ to reduce the individual frequencies and hey presto now your iNuke stops this from causing the unit from bottoming. We do the same for reverb issues with certain materials but is seems with all the work you done with materials you used your rig is pretty free from bad reverb it had with the ringing in the beginning prior to the work you done.

Your Own Path
Keep experimenting and if you wanted even try some rubber material below where a BK is installed. It may help on very solid sections or plates. This is something I plan to look more into with my own build and tests and will use the new gadget to help better understand the vibrations.

Your welcome to go with whatever hardware route you want, with additional controls or features or with how you want to mix different tactile. The UltraLink Pro I will compare to the Split Mix 4 but one benefit of the ULP is that it has level meters and another is that yes it has 6x XLR intputs. Indeed the cables I will need will cost quite a bit to connect all the hardware.

Nicer in the hand
I didn't want to have to rely on windows software settings or touchscreen controls for instant alteration of each channel. I've tried all options, for me, the Split Mic 4 dials feel great and if going to be installed right next to my seat I can easily alter any channel from within VR without even looking at the dials. If I swap between cars or sims this is great for just adding a bit more oomph or trimming things a bit on the fly without having to go into various software or screens. It feels much nicer in the hand too with the mechanical dial.

Regards Project Cars 2, I had it kindly brought to me by a member here but I have yet to really test it with tactile. I felt it best to keep file creation with SSW consistent and for me getting to enjoy the sims comes later.

Keep in mind that Simvibes TEST does not use real-time tone generation, as is used within the actual sims when running. It just does like windows or soundcard does with a channel test.

Yes you can mute the other channels output via soundcard channel control or the amp powering that channel. To then test PC2 in Simvibe with only the one channel operating. This will let you see with each effect on its own if the channel is operating as expected. Possibly try that channel with higher gain, if an effect seems to not be operating just incase a specific effect for some reason is being muted or output with much less dB.

Frustration & Enjoyment
Good luck with continued Simvibe usage and finding settings that get you improved immersion. We appear to be going in different directions but really for me its time to seek to surpass what it does and continue developing or improving what can be done with .wav file creation. This includes more control over how effects operate on specific channels with particular units or the roles these units have in a users installation.

CM & EM is a real pain in the arse in Simvibe needing manually created layers with proper settings configured or copied over for all the sliders/controls. It did my head in trying to manage an effect even as simple as a gearchange with 4 or more layers to then be on different EM channels as well as the CM channels and ensuring the settings on each were properly set.

To try to make a more complexed sensation for an effect in Simvibe requires lots of layers but then to have this is a nightmare with its terrible UI and is hard to keep track of. No such issues with SSW and loading a different .wav or having a .wav edited to operate in a specific way for a unit on a different channel.

Convenience and easy made alterations is one of the main things I liked about SSW and altering .wav effects within Audacity to quickly then export them and use. Its clear few people see the potential or benefits, or are willing to really help try to forward what perhaps can be done with SSW. What matters though is if you invest a lot of time and money into tactile that the user enjoys what it brings. I need to perhaps realise more that its not upto me to convince people or get them to like what I may like or go with what I may prefer to do.

 

[Mike McCormick]

Michal you should try indoor/outdoor carpet on your platform. Just glue it down to your MDF. I have used it for years on my rig.

 

[Michal Burisin]

View attachment 255003 Michal you should try indoor/outdoor carpet on your platform. Just glue it down to your MDF. I have used it for years on my rig.

I have found couple of ways how to get rid of odour from rubber, this might be also interesting to @Ceolmor here.

If it won't work, I will go your way, it's looking good.

Great rig / room!

 

[Michal Burisin]

Thanks for the detailed feedback @Michal Burisin

I'm pretty sure my left rear Buttkicker in Simvibe chassis mode is working in Pcars2, although as I get very little left/right separation it is hard to tell. If you test each Buttkicker individually in the Simcommander software does the rear left feel the same as the others in chassis mode?

I agree. You spend all that time and money on tactile, but then want to not be very aware of it when racing. If you become consciously aware of it then it is usually because it is doing something wrong. I sometimes wonder if it was really worth it, but then when you turn it off you are really aware of what it adds to the whole experience.

Are you really running the volume level in Windows Sound at only 33? What level are you running the iNukes? Currently, I have Windows Sound at 100 and iNukes at 12 o'clock. It also feels underpowered for some effects, but I too get problems with piston pang or rattles from the rig if I crank it up any higher.

I too have been running mostly SimVibe, as I find it quicker and easier to get the tactile working reasonably with SimVibe than SSW. My experimenting with SSW so far has not been very successful, although it probably has more potential. I'm not getting much, if any, left/right separation in either software.

For me in SimVibe gearshift is one of the best effects. This may be because I have a big BK LFE under my seat which is the best of all my Buttkickers. It works well when driving paddle shift or sequential shift cars, but not really on manual H-shifter cars. Try having two gear shifts added to your Simcommander profile, one with the frequency at 30hz and the other at 50hz. Then in the iNuke Remote Connect Parametric EQ, add a little boost in type PEQ (maybe 2db to 5db) at 30hz and 50hz with Quality at 10. Test on the Dallara Indycar in Pcars2, or any paddle shift car in AC.

I totally agree. I am currently trying to get a balance between constantly mucking about with tactile, and actually driving.

Yes. My small room stank of rubber for ages. I think it's died down now, but there is now an odd smell, maybe of stale piss. But perhaps that's not coming from the platform. Unless your MDF platform is on wheels, I'm not sure it will help with moving the rig.

Maybe we could share some of our Simcommander profiles through the the Owner Club facility. I will put some of mine on there titled "Ceolmor" for you to have a look at to compare. What sims do you use in addition to Pcars2?

@Ceolmor Can you please check that both your rear channels are working with rear suspension effects by turning off the other unit and other effects to be sure?

Otherwise the rear left wheel works fine in testing screen and with other effects for all wheels in game. Just using those 3 rear suspension effects don't give any feedback in one wheel.

Yes, that's exactly right, that it's hard to notice when it behaves correctly. It should be exactly like this. With normal road operation it works nicely, however I'm trying to get more thump in more rare situations when crashing, running over slow down bumper etc. which would be really strong in real life. Also for rally it will be good to have some more power for those big jumps.

When I run BK Concert on full power - volume to 100% on iNuke, I can get to around 40 - 50 volume in Windows before I start to get the pang, depending on frequency.

I still have yet to experiment with new setup in SSW, but from what I have tried so far, I think I will use SSW as secondary source of tactile feedback. At least until it has 4 separate wheels support for bumps, RPM based engine etc., only then I would consider to use it alone.

I think I'm getting good separation mainly thanks to those isolators with lot of rubber. I have definitely some crosstalk, but when I run on the rumble strips / big bumps, I can definitely tell if it's left or right. Also I have the units offset quite a bit on the sides which also helps.

Regarding gear shift, that must be it, I was using H shifter and it was giving me really uneven response, maybe it will be fine with paddles / sequential, however I love driving H shifter, so I will have to use SSW.

Regarding the rubber smell, I found some options, see link in the post above. Yes, I got the wheels, I hope it will be possible to move it. However I plan on making the rig static in future when I have VR standing in the corner so I don't have to constantly move it. I'm still hesitant to invest in separate TV / monitor just for racing. I'm waiting either for VR or some TV with HDMI 2.1.

Sharing profiles would be great! However mine are quite simple yet, but works reasonably good in PC2. I'm interested to see how you have it set up. Besides PC2 I drive Dirt Rally, it crashed on me when trying it with SimCommander, I will have to work on it when I have the chance, so I will be also making profiles for it.

It will probably take me like 2 - 3 weeks to put everything together again. I need to do some welding on pedal section and then I will have it spray painted to finish it off. I want this to be the last time when I take it apart completely for long time, I want at least the pedals section to be final.

I have DYI harness tensioner and g-seat and wind simulator in the works, so I have plenty to do while waiting for the rig to be complete .

I will be reworking seat section completely when I get the Kirkey aluminium seat, this will take also couple more weeks as it's travelling by ship, but I can do this separately.

I don't have camera right now, but I will post some photo progress in near future

 

[Michal Burisin]

Excellent arrangment of hardware for sure.
The TST T239 you can keep almost operating as normal, perhaps some (EQ tweaking via DSP) to sustain better the control of some mid range bass frequencies if they are too sharp around the 60-80Hz. You may find it good to try using the Crossover for the 4x CE to minimize the range they work in and again specific EQ on these units to shape the bass how you want it. All down to preference how you want the two units to work together in a Dual Role setup but the BK LFE really drops in performance above 60Hz (perhaps more the the CE models) compared to my TST439. The CE is a unit I will get around to properly comparing to the BK LFE in the near future.

I will still need to do testing regarding BK Concerts, they seem to drop off in performance above 45 - 50 Hz, but I didn't really had much time to test it yet. You're still getting good response with LFEs above the 50 hz range?

Perhaps, because your using Simvibe with whatever effects settings you use and whatever level you have the output mixer within Simvibe set to. My remarks about this was in reference to SSW. As stated before, with specialist .wav files we can apply more control over specific frequencies and amplitude an effect will use. Yet you continue to focus more at this stage with what you can do in Simvibe.

A typical Simvibe user hasn't really a clue what Hz the effect is generating or what amplitude the Hz within it are peaking at.

Can you tell me what frequencies and dB they have for any of Simvibes effects, can we go to just certain frequencies and have that effect boost those but maybe maintain others?

This is my point as with SSW we build the effect beforehand to have the amplitude and contain the desired Hz energy in forming its general character. With the monitoring, we can then verify from the effects creation to determine exactly how and what energy it is outputting for all the frequencies. This is a very reason I am creating hundreds of files for SSW to give people the ability to have an effect at very different dB settings and with shifts in the Hz to find a set for them that seems a perfect balance to suit the tactile they are using.

If by all means someone wants an effects master .wav to shake the crap out of them, then hey its audio we can create it man. If you want your left steering inputs to bark like a dog and your right to meow like a cat, we can, again with SSW its "audio". So in some ways we avoid the restricted tone generation that does its own magic internally behind the scenes in Simvibe. A user can set a min max range for an effect in Simvibe to use but as I keep saying, this is not the only Hz it will use nor can you tell it to boost specific Hz more than others. Both options/solutions have their own benefits and drawbacks. A .wav file can have much more complexity or character introduced into the sensation the effect will deliver than what Simvibes tone generation does on the fly that people dont even really know properly what its doing.

The output performance I'm mentioning is not related to SimVibe, I have tested it with Audacity and Sweep generators etc. and I start to get some pang even when the response is not powerfull as I have expected it to be. Maybe your more complex effects will give more stronger feedback without triggering the pang compared to simple fixed generated frequency.

I will definitely get to SimVibe and tuning, I just found out I have some improvements I can try to do to improve the feedback and get rid of the pang, I want to try it first. I'm striving to finalize proper attachment of the units first and only then I will get into full testing mode with different sources of tactile.

I noticed I get more pang in simvibe with higher frequencies. I have in chassis mode:

Suspension bumps - 5 - 20 hz with 10% variance and quite big volume to give me big bumps
Vertical surges 1 - 20 - 35 hz with 25% variance and medium gain to give me small bumps
Vertical surges 2 - 5 - 15 hz with small variance and low gain and high sensitivity to give me road texture

It's pretty simple setup (I did it in like 3 hours) and it works reasonably well, but it could be improved upon a lot for sure.

I have initial findings, that when I use it with higher frequencies and higher volume (fast switching directions of piston), it triggers the pang. I will do the testing with BK installed and other in my lap while driving to find out if it will pang also when removed from the installation to find out if it's BK bottoming out or the structure rattling.

If I take your settings in Simvibe and monitor the audio channels I could easily see the frequency output compared to what SSW is doing with whatever files I may be using but say we want to compare how/what each is doing, yeah its time-consuming but not a problem for me to do.

Many thanks for the offer, but I wouldn't want to sap more of your time. Really thanks for your detailed feedback! Maybe we can compare later if it would be of interest to you, but at this stage when I'm still solving the installation and the pang, it would probably be waste of time.

So if we wanted I could see what the average response Simvibe is generating for an effect and car but as it works dynamically to the physics in how it generates the tones. Then due to this, the response varies based on the XYZ values and speed etc for how it creates the tone. However with monitoring this, its possible if desired, with effects to see the min-max values for frequencies that Simvibe is typically generating for it (based of course on the user settings, sim used and car driven). It would then, in theory, be possible to take 4-5 of these responses generated to record each, then compare them and create an average based min-max frequency response from those. This could then be saved as a single .wav file to test or use in SSW if desired. Yet we cannot make a great effect for SSW via a specialised and more complexed .wav and try to get a similar sensation within SImvibe and its tone generation to replicate.

Now, I have not tried to do this, its not the approach I wanted to take as I see more potential with advanced learning to build effects from scratch and these use Hz within the effects master that can work for specific tactile models. That is one benefit we can try to apply to .wav is having the master effect created designed to work well on the tactile units. Simvibe does absolutely nothing to let a user manage its output for specific models or thier own performances.

However yes, if we wanted to try and replicate how a specific effect felt in Simvibe was, we could attempt to mimic the output character of that effect to help create a similar response based .wav for SSW.

I think your approach of making wavs from scratch is way to go. I see no point in trying to replicate what SimVibe is doing as it has completely different approach to telemetry usage. Only thing that matters is that the wavs you make works good in SSW.

Nobody Else Seems To Bother Trying To Create Their OWN .WAV?
Its very time consuming creating and testing effects in SSW and then trying these on different tactile. For good effects creation things I think are going okay, sure I keep finding new methods or ways to help improve but I have found using specific fundamental frequencies, with say 1/3rd octaves and monitoring or understanding how the harmonics work can help towards having an effect respond well for certain tactile.

Although much of testing is trial and error. Its really just about getting a sensation and character we think suits the effect it is for. If we want, we can make it as BASS heavy as we want or to crank the crap out of a unit. Spending a day with this it would be possible to build and create an effect in SSW to suit a specific tactile unit and to feel exactly how the user desires it to be or with EXTREME levels of energy pushing the unit to its max if that's the case. Yet for the files, I am doing to share with people I learned to place within the effects master low Hz and then also harmonics of these for the less capable units. So this, in theory, should allow a master effect have a decent operation on a good range of units, yet feel unique in their own way that those units generate and output them.

The approach I have been applying with SSW will let people determine this themselves to find how strong they want an effect and deterime in some ways what Hz it uses. This gives the user the control to feel the effect with a thicker/bass heavy sensation or to be lighter, less bass heavy and operate faster in its response. What suits the user is upto them and may vary on the hardware and preferences they have. But by eck they will have a good range of choice with multiple varations of dB and frequency control being offered in the files created. Some effects will suit having higher frequencies as (cycles per second) is speed related to the effects sensation as well as how bass heavy it may be.

However, nothing stops us from making updated or improved masters or of course how we use the effects over the channels for custom rigs be they simple or monster builds.
This is something I will cover in due course how to manage SSW files over the channels and make simple to understand or apply. Even building them for specific installations like our own . More and more is being learned with every session I look into tests, this will increase if I keep continuing but I need to bring the new files currently as they are to let people use and enjoy.

Although why I bother at times I wonder as really I could just focus on my own build and create effects for myself to enjoy and just let others stick to default SSW files or run with Simvibe. Their is certainly little thanks or benefits to the work and effort put into trying to improve things for others. Yet I try to bring something that has never been done before and get more potential out of SSW that even the developer of it does not seem to see for advanced tactile owners or is much even interested in achieving.

I will get to SSW with final installation, however there's no chance in hell anyone can make better effects than you do without similar investment in this area as you did. It's so difficult to grasp what makes good effect vs bad one, I think no one will make effects from scratch. I have played with generating effects in the beginning, but I couldn't get anything even remotly usable.

I can see myself altering your effects to my installation, but I know I wouldn't be able to create something from scratch, without hundreds, possibly thousands of hours which I simply don't have, so many thanks for your continued effort in this venture.

When the rig is built and you're settled into it, then you can do final calibrating with the iNuke DSP.
So you can discover and reduce the specific frequencies that are causing the peaking with the settings and tone generation you are using. This is much easier for me with a DAW and monitoring the output as we can see everything. However, a user can set a crossover range via iNuke to test say an individual effect causing the unit to bottom. What you do then is to find within the range by continually narrowing it to discover which Hz are the culprits. Once you find the Hz range to address, you can use the PEQ to reduce the individual frequencies and hey presto now your iNuke stops this from causing the unit from bottoming. We do the same for reverb issues with certain materials but is seems with all the work you done with materials you used your rig is pretty free from bad reverb it had with the ringing in the beginning prior to the work you done.

Yes, I plan to do the final calibration when I have final install, at least for the pedal section which won't change much after this last round of major tweaking I'm working on right now.

I will use tone generator, and will try to get nice and even feeling from sweep across the frequencies making sure I avoid any possible pang which feels very distracting. It also generates lot of noise. When I had the units working without pang, I think I could run this even in night which is awesome.

The big units are quieter than Advance, so I will probably try to go Concerts or LFE for Pedals and Seat dual role instead of Advance in the future.

Your Own Path
Keep experimenting and if you wanted even try some rubber material below where a BK is installed. It may help on very solid sections or plates. This is something I plan to look more into with my own build and tests and will use the new gadget to help better understand the vibrations.

Your welcome to go with whatever hardware route you want, with additional controls or features or with how you want to mix different tactile. The UltraLink Pro I will compare to the Split Mix 4 but one benefit of the ULP is that it has level meters and another is that yes it has 6x XLR intputs. Indeed the cables I will need will cost quite a bit to connect all the hardware.

I have circular hole under where BKs are installed on pedal base so theres not much where to put the rubber. I could try to place it on whole pedal plate from bottom but I'm not sure if it won't kill TSTs higher frequencies.

I don't see how you will use UltraLink Pro, from what I see from documentation it's useful for mixing 6 XLR input to 2 master XLR outputs. I think I need to combine 2 x 6 channels into 6 XLR outputs. To achieve this I will need probably 2x MS8000 splitters.

I'm not sure if I don't understand it wrongly. I will try to ask for some solutions in audio store, but this 2x MS8000 units seems a way to go for me as I have already all cabling for 1 soundcard, I will just need to expand upon that.

Nicer in the hand
I didn't want to have to rely on windows software settings or touchscreen controls for instant alteration of each channel. I've tried all options, for me, the Split Mic 4 dials feel great and if going to be installed right next to my seat I can easily alter any channel from within VR without even looking at the dials. If I swap between cars or sims this is great for just adding a bit more oomph or trimming things a bit on the fly without having to go into various software or screens. It feels much nicer in the hand too with the mechanical dial.

I think I won't need control over the mixing, as I will do this balancing one time in windows - I will probably leave it to 50 / 50 and then balance it in gain settings between the effects in SimVibe vs SSW. I don't want to tweak between games / cars as with the analog knob it's almost impossible to get back to some settings you have dialed for some combination of car / game. I think it's better for me to do this in software layer.

Regards Project Cars 2, I had it kindly brought to me by a member here but I have yet to really test it with tactile. I felt it best to keep file creation with SSW consistent and for me getting to enjoy the sims comes later.

For me PC2 is game to go right now. I cannot get to like the AC, the physics feels wrong to me. Maybe it's the other way around and PC2 has it wrong, but it behaves how I expect the cars would behave. In AC the cars feels really unrealistic in low speeds, it feels like the car don't want to steer. Maybe I have some settings wrong or I need to tune the car setup, but default car behaviour feels wrong to me.

Regarding tactile, the effects you created directly for AC feels better in AC than PC2. I think for PC2 it will require some tweaking, but nothing major.

Keep in mind that Simvibes TEST does not use real-time tone generation, as is used within the actual sims when running. It just does like windows or soundcard does with a channel test.

Yes you can mute the other channels output via soundcard channel control or the amp powering that channel. To then test PC2 in Simvibe with only the one channel operating. This will let you see with each effect on its own if the channel is operating as expected. Possibly try that channel with higher gain, if an effect seems to not be operating just incase a specific effect for some reason is being muted or output with much less dB.

Yes, by switching off the amp (gain to 0 by knob) I found out, that rear suspension effects are not working for left wheel but other all wheels effects works fine.

Frustration & Enjoyment
Good luck with continued Simvibe usage and finding settings that get you improved immersion. We appear to be going in different directions but really for me its time to seek to surpass what it does and continue developing or improving what can be done with .wav file creation. This includes more control over how effects operate on specific channels with particular units or the roles these units have in a users installation.

CM & EM is a real pain in the arse in Simvibe needing manually created layers with proper settings configured or copied over for all the sliders/controls. It did my head in trying to manage an effect even as simple as a gearchange with 4 or more layers to then be on different EM channels as well as the CM channels and ensuring the settings on each were properly set.

To try to make a more complexed sensation for an effect in Simvibe requires lots of layers but then to have this is a nightmare with its terrible UI and is hard to keep track of. No such issues with SSW and loading a different .wav or having a .wav edited to operate in a specific way for a unit on a different channel.

Convenience and easy made alterations is one of the main things I liked about SSW and altering .wav effects within Audacity to quickly then export them and use. Its clear few people see the potential or benefits, or are willing to really help try to forward what perhaps can be done with SSW. What matters though is if you invest a lot of time and money into tactile that the user enjoys what it brings. I need to perhaps realise more that its not upto me to convince people or get them to like what I may like or go with what I may prefer to do.

Yes, we are going in different directions, but not very much I would say. I plan to use both the SimVibe and SSW together, it's real pain in the ass to have additional soundcard, additional mixer and 20 more cables, but I will probably go for it, as I have already invested in it so much already and I wouldn't be happy with only one software as they are both lacking.

I wish there was one software to do it all but I'm afraid we are still couple of years from there.

I think the people will pick up what it suits them best naturally. Your continued effort in SSW is much appreciated and it will get more people involved with SSW. I think it's nice of you to give people option to go SSW with improved effects but they will do the decision in the end themselves when they find out what suits their needs the best.

For me, if I had to choose single one, I would take SimVibe as the engine effect in SSW is just no go for me, developing sensation with rising RPM is one effect that's really important for me and it glues the immersion together, without it in SSW I was constantly thinking how wrong it feels.

Also you go really your own way with trying to use tactile to simulate g-forces and you probably develop effects with that goal in mind, however I don't see anyone with potential rig to go this way. So also for this, SSW seems like way to go for you, but I think majority of people prefer to have the basic effects working (bumps / engine) which SimVibe provides quite easily. On the other hand it's missing some other features ths SSW has, so it's up to people to decide what is more important to them.

Do you know anyone else who would go the way of combined soundcards (me SSW + SimVibe or you SSW + audio)? I think this route is so complicated only couple of people will take it. In the end, I think it is mostly about convenience for majority of people.

 

[Mr Latte]

I will still need to do testing regarding BK Concerts, they seem to drop off in performance above 45 - 50 Hz, but I didn't really had much time to test it yet. You're still getting good response with LFEs above the 50 hz range?

The response of the LFE above 60Hz compared to the TST is vastly different in the detailing.
So effects I have been testing where we may want light sensation with quick response (eg "wheelslip" comes across much more detailed. Its also very noticeable in rpm and high revs.

I found I needed different sets of Hz and dB from my sets that I am creating for the effects for the different tactile. This way I can optimise a sensation for each unit but needless to say as we know BK's strong points is with its low-end frequencies.

The output performance I'm mentioning is not related to SimVibe, I have tested it with Audacity and Sweep generators etc. and I start to get some pang even when the response is not powerfull as I have expected it to be. Maybe your more complex effects will give more stronger feedback without triggering the pang compared to simple fixed generated frequency.

You missed the point I raised, your not able to control as well with Simvibe the dB of specific Hz in an effect. I suppose you could have say, 6 layers created for suspension bumps to combine together to use specific Hz to some degree but not to the same way possible in building specific waveforms.

I think I know what is causing your pang issues. You need to clarify what you mean. Do you mean you have the amps dial at max settings? Tell us also if you have adjusted the "Crossover" section to have additional or less gain applied or EQ at this current moment?

I will definitely get to SimVibe and tuning, I just found out I have some improvements I can try to do to improve the feedback and get rid of the pang, I want to try it first. I'm striving to finalize proper attachment of the units first and only then I will get into full testing mode with different sources of tactile.

I noticed I get more pang in simvibe with higher frequencies. I have in chassis mode:

Suspension bumps - 5 - 20 hz with 10% variance and quite big volume to give me big bumps
Vertical surges 1 - 20 - 35 hz with 25% variance and medium gain to give me small bumps
Vertical surges 2 - 5 - 15 hz with small variance and low gain and high sensitivity to give me road texture


It's pretty simple setup (I did it in like 3 hours) and it works reasonably well, but it could be improved upon a lot for sure.

You have me confused, you mention using "Vertical Surges 1" for small bumps and then "Vertical Surges 2" for road texture. So what is it that "Vertical Surges" are representing in your mind? If it is for small bumps and road texture, then why do we have other effects that also have bump/texture sets, for example "Road Bumps" I think before we start to determine how an effect maybe should be implemented or feels, it is maybe a good idea to understand when the effect is active or what the effect itself represents.

What are the chances this is a "vertical g-force" based effect, so then how should this feel different to suspension bumps or indeed "Road Bumps".

With Suspension bumps your saying you use 5-20Hz. So I assume this is 5Hz for large and 20Hz for small bumps? To me, that seems quite a close range to cover variations representing each. 20Hz is still quite a low frequency for small bumps.

By all means please, if you and others want to download the best profiles or continue working on your own. I would be interestd to compare what you achieve with bumps to my own latest SSW bumps.

I have initial findings, that when I use it with higher frequencies and higher volume (fast switching directions of piston), it triggers the pang. I will do the testing with BK installed and other in my lap while driving to find out if it will pang also when removed from the installation to find out if it's BK bottoming out or the structure rattling.

I think the pang issue is relative to your settings with the amp at 100%. Mid bass is more prone to higher gain maybe being an issue with these bigger units. You seem to be applying a rather odd way to balance your system. Im not surprised some effects are causing issues with your soundcard at 50% due to the highly excessive gain you are applying via (i assume) the amps pre-amp stage. I cant say for certain till you confirm all settings.


From a SSW perspective we have 4 varibles, (1) the amplitude of the effect .wav for specific Hz within the effect itself, (2) the soundcard level output, (3) iNuke levels input pre-amp stage, (4) The iNuke output amplification stage including DSP controls.

From what you described I cannot understand why you would have things set in the way you do.
It would make much more sense to have the soundcard from 80-100% and then the iNuke dials at about 12pm. Then you can apply or reduce the "OUTPUT GAIN" the amp uses via the "Crossover" section. It controls the main amplification and not the pre-amp input level stage that it appears you have cranked to 100%. Once a good balanced level is set, we then can apply DSP to specifically control specific Hz ranges or individual frequencies.

You have done virtually very little testing with the newer files (inc new engine) that I have done. I dont think you also have properly put to test the solution I discuss with having effects available in multiple dB and with varations to the Hz they use. Now Im not being a smart ass here but how can you form any opinion yet with Simvibe or SSW as really even the operation/balance of your tactile at the moment seems to need some attention based on your own commented issues with piston pang.

I don't see how you will use UltraLink Pro, from what I see from the documentation it's useful for mixing 6 XLR input to 2 master XLR outputs. I think I need to combine 2 x 6 channels into 6 XLR outputs. To achieve this I will need probably 2x MS8000 splitters.
View attachment 255026

Yes in my case I can use the ULP to mix stereo audio in with 6 SSW channels but I will likely only mix the "audio tactile" over the main 4 channels. As this brings the additional stereo benefits audio tactile achieves with curbs as well as effects that have no telemetry activity at all. Factors you are perhaps not even taking into account. Doing this also enables the engine character to be felt across the main 4 with then having dedicated SSW engine via the central channels over Dual Role. I have tested this in the past but look forward to push this area with much more control over the "audio tactile" than is normally done.


I'm not sure if I don't understand it wrongly. I will try to ask for some solutions in audio store, but this 2x MS8000 units seems a way to go for me as I have already all cabling for 1 soundcard, I will just need to expand upon that.

I think I won't need control over the mixing, as I will do this balancing one time in windows - I will probably leave it to 50 / 50 and then balance it in gain settings between the effects in SimVibe vs SSW. I don't want to tweak between games / cars as with the analog knob it's almost impossible to get back to some settings you have dialed for some combination of car / game. I think it's better for me to do this in software layer.

The point with the analogue knob is for simple on the fly alterations. This can help with the varations in different sims or cars can have. Without maybe having to go into the software or other onscreen options. It also can help tweek the balance of any individual channel, if we find for some reason that one tactile unit seems to have a bit more strength than others.

So the SplitMix 4 can be set with the software settings, the soundcard settings, the amp so that the 12oclock position for the knobs is well balanced. Very easy to go back to unchanged settings to normal output.


Your telling me that your considered option using, slider controls for 2 sets of 6 channel based soundcards and then individual controls for effects in both SSW and Simvibe is a simple solution? To do this, as a better approach, than say I would with turning a simple knob for either "Audio" or "SSW" being mixed and its strength controlled per channel?

Whereas what you are suggesting also means having settings within SSW and Simvibe to now set and contend with on top of your channel/mix levels? Gees man its a pain to have to just go into Simvibe different screens to alter CM & EM then down to the individual layers for whatever effect it is you want to adjust. I think you will find this is not as easy to do or have both telemetry based solutions working with high energy effects and still maintain control over the dB for various Hz that such will not cause you even greater piston pang issues.

Which effects you desire to use may depend if you can use hardware like the Ultralink Pro or other. For example would you notice much, if only the front stereo from SSW was mixed with Simvibe or vice versa but then this mixed with the front and rear channels. Really the only way to figure all this out is to test the possible ways of doing it and lots of work.

Yes, we are going in different directions, but not very much I would say. I plan to use both the SimVibe and SSW together, it's real pain in the ass to have additional soundcard, additional mixer and 20 more cables, but I will probably go for it, as I have already invested in it so much already and I wouldn't be happy with only one software as they are both lacking.

I wish there was one software to do it all but I'm afraid we are still couple of years from there.

I think the people will pick up what it suits them best naturally. Your continued effort in SSW is much appreciated and it will get more people involved with SSW. I think it's nice of you to give people option to go SSW with improved effects but they will do the decision in the end themselves when they find out what suits their needs the best.

For me, if I had to choose single one, I would take SimVibe as the engine effect in SSW is just no go for me, developing sensation with rising RPM is one effect that's really important for me and it glues the immersion together, without it in SSW I was constantly thinking how wrong it feels.

Making too many assumptions I think at this stage and not with finalised files.

Also you go really your own way with trying to use tactile to simulate g-forces and you probably develop effects with that goal in mind, however I don't see anyone with potential rig to go this way. So also for this, SSW seems like way to go for you, but I think majority of people prefer to have the basic effects working (bumps / engine) which SimVibe provides quite easily. On the other hand it's missing some other features ths SSW has, so it's up to people to decide what is more important to them.

What do you mean, goal in mind? The G-force based effects bring excellent immersion. It's nothing to do with having extreme levels of crazy vibration or health concerns. These effects when working well can bring superb immersion that Simvibe does not offer. Its then a matter of building and bringing sensations for these effects that feel really enjoyable that help it stand out from Simvibe.

Do you know anyone else who would go the way of combined soundcards (me SSW + SimVibe or you SSW + audio)? I think this route is so complicated only couple of people will take it. In the end, I think it is mostly about convenience for majority of people.

Few, those that want to tinker or push the boundaries perhaps.

I dont really care how many people are interested in doing this. All I can say to you is I have delved into all options to some degree but I share what I have discovered and has impressed me most or I see the best overall potential with.

Not arguing here but with my own testing so far I don't share your thoughts on the benefits of adding certain effects from Simvibe with SSW or that its worth the hassle. It brings more potential issues and problems.

We could question really what effects are the ones you deem, we need to use from each to form the (presumed ideal scenario)? Then yes how to best mix these. Why do you need to mix 6 channels with 6 channels from both, how does 2 MS8000 enable this. Mixers have mixing controls. I tried mixing 5.1 audio with SSW using the Art Split Mix units but found "stereo audio" was good enough and simplier but have it work then in A/B stereo as quad over front and back channels. I found mixing audio with SSW was the way to go for best results than mixing Simvibe with SSW but your welcome to discover this as a side project of your own.

What annoys me to a certain extent is that It appears you are forming an opinion on some previous test files for SSW and by no means properly configured ones, missing the full solution/options I will bring with them. Yet comparing these with Simvibe and settings you mention spending just 3 hours on?

Hardly at this stage a good basis to say what is the best way forward until really you get to compare both when fully incorporated and configured. Of course however having more options can maybe be a good way to decide what you like best.

 

[Michal Burisin]

Perhaps I haven't explained it sufficiently. I have put the build together for initial test and I found that the installation is still lacking in many areas. I need to address these issues first before delving deep into tactile setup. Also I have problem, that the rig got so heavy I can't move it. I don't have separate display / PC for it, so when I had it assembled I couldn't work on my PC, I'm addressing those issues, I will have the moveable platform for the rig ready soon. That's why I got only couple of hours of testing before I had to disassemble everything again.

The response of the LFE above 60Hz compared to the TST is vastly different in the detailing.
So effects I have been testing where we may want light sensation with quick response (eg "wheelslip" comes across much more detailed. Its also very noticeable in rpm and high revs.

I found I needed different sets of Hz and dB from my sets that I am creating for the effects for the different tactile. This way I can optimise a sensation for each unit but needless to say as we know BK's strong points is with its low-end frequencies.

It felt to me, that I'm losing feeling above 45 - 50 Hz altogether, I will try again, as I thought Concerts should have better mid range than LFE.

I think I know what is causing your pang issues. Having the soundcard at 30% or so and the amp as you state at 100%. You need to clarify what you mean. Do you mean you have the amps dial at max settings? Tell me also if you have adjusted the "Crossover" section to have additional gain applied or EQ at this current moment?

I had soundcard around 50 - 75 and amp on 100%, it didn't occurred to me, this could cause issues, I will set it as you suggest next time, thanks for heads up. I didn't adjust gain in Crossover section yet.

You have me confused, you mention using "Vertical Surges 1" for small bumps and then "Vertical Surges 2" for road texture. So what is it that "Vertical Surges" are representing in your mind? If it is for small bumps and road texture, then why do we have other effects that also have bump/texture sets, for example "Road Bumps" I think before we start to determine how an effect maybe should be implemented or feels, it is maybe a good idea to understand when the effect is active or what the effect itself represents.

Do you possibly think it could it be a "vertical g-force" based effect and if so, then how should this feel different to suspension bumps? Or indeed "Road Bumps" Yet, hold on, what effect then represents any "lateral g-force" in Simvibe?

With Suspension bumps your saying you use 5-20Hz. So I assume this is 5Hz for large and 20Hz for small bumps? To me, that seems quite a close range to cover variations representing each. 20Hz is still quite a low frequency for small bumps.

By all means please, if you and others want to share your Simvibe settings that would be excellent.

As I had limited time, I just wanted to get some feeling quickly. I used Vertical Surges 2 to generate road texture, because it felt better than actual Road Texture effect. Road Texture doesn't allow to set frequency. With modified Vertical Surges I gained almost constant subtle tactile feedback even on almost completely smooth road. It feels wrong to me, when the tactile response stops altogether, so I use this to have some white noise always going on.

Yes, 5 (large) - 20 (small) bumps. I don't use the effects in SimVibe according their names, I'm trying to get response I feel is right any way I can.

You could say, that my bumps 5 - 20 hz cover big and medium bumps.

Vertical surges 20 - 35 hz cover small bumps.

Vertical surges 5 - 15 hz cover general road texture / white noise.

Each effect is set up with different sensitivity, gain etc.

I'm not sure, it's worth to share this, as I written above, I didn't have more time to set it up, this is initial quick setup which felt OK to me, but I'm sure there's very large space for improvement.

I haven't found a way in SimVibe how to get any g-force effect, that's why I would like to combine SimVibe with SSW.

I think the pang issue is relative to your settings with the amp at 100%. Mid bass is more prone to higher gain maybe being an issue with these bigger units. You seem to be applying a rather odd way to balance your system. Im not surprised some effects are causing issues with your soundcard at 50% due to the highly excessive gain you are applying via (i assume) the amps pre-amp stage. I cant say for certain till you confirm all settings.

From a SSW perspective we have 4 varibles, (1) the amplitude of the effect .wav for specific Hz within the effect itself, (2) the soundcard level output, (3) iNuke levels input pre-amp stage, (4) The iNuke output amplification stage including DSP controls.

From what you described I cannot understand why you would have things set in the way you do.
It would make much more sense to have the soundcard from 80-100% and then the iNuke dials at about 12pm. Then you can apply or reduce the "OUTPUT GAIN" the amp uses via the "Crossover" section. It controls the main amplification and not the pre-amp input level stage that it appears you have cranked to 100%. Once a good balanced level is set, we then can apply DSP to specifically control specific Hz ranges or individual frequencies.

As above thanks for heads up, will try to set it as you suggest. I didn't know there are differences with where you set your gain.

You have done virtually very little testing with the newer files (inc new engine) that I have done. I dont think you also have properly put to test the solution I discuss with having effects available in multiple dB and with varations to the Hz they use. Now Im not being a smart ass here but how can you form any opinion yet with Simvibe or SSW as really even the operation/balance of your tactile at the moment seems to need some attention based on your own commented issues with piston pang.

I have stated before, maybe not sufficiently that I didn't have time to do more testing. I have quickly set up SimVibe and that's it. I will try the SSW when I get the last round of installation changes done and have platform for rig to be able to set it up quickly.

Yes, you are right, I haven't managed to try SSW, I will definitely do it. I just don't see the engine effect - I mean the way it's implemented in SSW could work for me, but I will try it and let you know.

You are right, I formed my opinion on SSW earlier and not current files, I'm open to everything, so I will try again.

The point with the analogue knob is for simple on the fly alterations. This can help with the varations in different sims or cars can have. Without maybe having to go into the software or other onscreen options. It also can help tweek the balance of any individual channel, if we find for some reason that one tactile unit seems to have a bit more strength than others.

So the SplitMix 4 can be set with the software settings, the soundcard settings, the amp so that the 12oclock position for the knobs is well balanced. So very easy to go back to unchanged settings to normal output.


Your telling me that your considered option using, slider controls for 2 sets of 6 channel based soundcards and then individual controls for effects in both SSW and Simvibe is a simple solution? To do this, as a better approach, than say I would with turning a simple knob for either "Audio" or "SSW" being mixed and its strength controlled per channel?

Whereas what you are suggesting also means having settings within SSW and Simvibe to now set and contend with on top of your channel/mix levels? I think you will find this is not as easy to do or have both telemetry based solutions working with high energy effects and still maintain control over the dB for various Hz that such will not cause you even greater piston pang issues.

Which effects you desire to use may depend if you can use hardware like the ULP.
For example would you notice much, if only the front stereo from SSW was mixed with Simvibe or vice versa but then this mixed with the front and rear channels. Really the only way to figure all this out is to test the possible ways of doing it.

It seems a bit of a stretch at this stage when you still have yet get SSW or Simvibe with each effect working well by their own never mind the added issues when trying to use and combine both in a mix.

I understand that the knob could be useful. With mixing audio and tactile it might be good way to make on the fly changes.

I'm at the beginning of learning about tactile, so I haven't tried lot of stuff yet and only thing I have is some general idea how it could work. There are no resources beside your advice how to implement this, so I will have to figure out lot of stuff as I go.

Maybe it will work, maybe not, but unless I try, I will never know.

My idea is, that I will pick certain effects from SimVibe and some from SSW - I will run these effects on different tactile units so the SimVibe and SSW should not collide.

Yes, as you say, I have trouble with the pang, I'm dealing with it, so please bear with me, as it takes time, I need to have some profiles supports welded onto pedal platform etc., so that takes some time, I hope I will have it ready in like 2 - 3 weeks tops.

Making too many assumptions I think at this stage and not with finalised files.

Maybe you are right, I made those assumptions based on my past experience, we will see with new files / versions of SSW.

What do you mean, goal in mind? The G-force based effects bring excellent immersion. It's nothing to do with having extreme levels of crazy vibration or health concerns. These effects when working well can bring superb immersion that Simvibe does not offer. Its then a matter of building and bringing sensations for these effects that feel really enjoyable that help it stand out from Simvibe.

I will try SSW again, in the past, the G-force effects I tried in SSW beside deceleration in pedals (which is awesome) felt wrong to me. Please, bear in mind that everyone has different perception of tactile and sense of what feels good or real or whatever. This is just my personal opinion which I will happily change if I find that it's good with new files / version of SSW. Perhaps I have something completely wrong in my setup / installation, this might also be the case.

Few, those that want to tinker or push the boundaries perhaps.

I dont really care how many people are interested in doing this. All I can say to you is I have delved into all options to some degree but I share what I have discovered and has impressed me most or I see the best overall potential with.

Not arguing here but with my own testing so far I don't share your thoughts on the benefits of adding certain effects from Simvibe with SSW or that its worth the hassle. It brings more potential issues and problems.

We could question really what effects are the ones you deem, we need to use from each to form the (presumed ideal scenario)? Then yes how to best mix these. Why do you need to mix 6 channels with 6 channels from both, how does 2 MS8000 enable this. Mixers have mixing controls. I tried mixing 5.1 audio with SSW using the Art Split Mix units but found "stereo audio" was good enough and simplier but have it work then in A/B stereo as quad over front and back channels. I found mixing audio with SSW was the way to go for best results than mixing Simvibe with SSW but your welcome to discover this as a side project of your own.

I see both SimVibe and SSW are lacking in some areas, so that's the reason why I would like to try to combine them.

I would like the engine and individual wheels separation from SimVibe.

And shift, deceleration and wheel slip from SSW, maybe some other G-force effects, I don't know yet.

I would really love if any one software could do everything I'm looking for, but from what I know so far, I will need to combine SSW with SimVibe to be happy - I'm just assuming it could work, I don't know, but I will try.

I asked before if it's possible to use just this cable, to mix the output of 2 soundcards.

I'm not sure this will combine the signals properly, if yes, I will go with this solution as it's much easier to implement than with some dedicated mixers. Or is there any other way to do this? I will try to ask in some audio store what are the best options.

If this simple cable won't work, then my idea behind using MS8000 to mix the channels is that it's most simple for me at the moment, as I have one MS8000 unit already and half the cabling necessary.

I need to mix 2x 6 channels to deliver effects from SSW and SimVibe to tactile units I need.

What annoys me to a certain extent is that It appears you are forming an opinion on some pevious test files for SSW and by no means properly configured ones, missing the full solution/options I will bring with them. Yet comparing these with Simvibe and settings you mention spending just 3 hours on?

Hardly at this stage a good basis to say what is the best way forward until really you get to compare both when fully incorporated and configured.

I'm sorry if something I wrote offended you, it was not my intention. I was not bragging that I can get better setup in SimVibe in three hours or whatever you undestood from my post. I stated in my post, that it was initial and very quick setup, but maybe it didn't get across the text as clear as I thought it would.

I wrote that I found issues with my installation and I'm working on it, I know that I'm newbie in tactile and I don't try to pose myself otherwise, that's why I have a lot of stupid questions / ideas .

I really don't care what software I use, I just care for results that I feel are good for me. Everyone has different taste, so everything I wrote is my personal opinion based on how certain things worked for me in the past.

I'm really open to everything so I'm looking forward to testing your new files in SSW. I really hope it will be so good that I could use SSW only and save myself lot of hassle, let's see when I have the rig done and you are finished with your files - it's really great work and effort you are putting into this, thank you for that - I don't know where you take the time and energy to be this active and still build your rig. My efforts on finishing the installation of the rig are taking away all my disposable time so I don't have as much time to spend on the forum.

I hope this clears up some misunderstanding I feel you got from my previous post.

Cheers and have fun!

 

[Mr Latte]

MIchal, youve jumped in heavily to this with a pile of money thrown at good hardware and materials. You now have to get it to work well and become enjoyable with belief/hope much of the work you thought of, or implemented into the build pays off. Yet it seems you want to do this or go about it in your own way. The amp settings is an example, the idea you need both Simvibe/SSW or even audio all mixed together, it's like evaluating things now deeming what must be done before you even really discover what can be done.

We need to walk before we run....
I advise you hold off on seeking to mix sources or how to go about this and leave that for later.


I may as well blow ideas or benefits of waveforms out my ass as most of it is just glared over and ignored. My hope was that you or others with the more advanced hardware would be keen to work together to put to the test created effects. By all means, compare them to what the alternatives in Simvibe offered and let the results of such be clear as to which seemed the best solution for a specific effect or indeed general immersion each could bring.

To properly, with much effort, fairly determine how good/bad some may of felt or operated. To use the combined feedback to then apply it in shaping the sensation for individual effects that indeed were more enjoyable, that get the most out of the hardware but also importantly represented the nature of the effect itself in a superb way.



Let me share that part of my early research with monitoring Simvibe. I even took into account quotes that "Berney" made to people in various forums asking questions and I went through at the time over every post regards tactile made on his own forums. Needless to say I scurried the internet for as much about the software that he had shared at the time.

You are welcome as are others to use Simvibe all you want but the majority of people are using effects not even knowing what they really are for as really even the man himself does not convey to the community much about their differences, their operation or any guides towards how they should be implemented.

"What feels best"
Was something Berney once said to me when I questioned if we should use compression/decompression with suspension or just one element? Oh sure I wanted the "more accurate" or "best trueness" to what the sim was offering as often in this world of simulation we want accuracy to the real thing.

Yet as often, he again was giving no clear information on the effects operation. So I dont think all of what Simvibe offers is just for realisim/accuracy but that some of the effects or options may use the same telemetry data but in different ways. This possibility for the user to go with just what seems best to them.


Bumps, Surges, Textures
Find me an average or even advanced tactile user of Simvibe to tell me the differences in these and why or how we should use them or combine them. In fact, go ahead and create a thread on the forums to have people having used the software for YEARS to describe to you what they feel or think is the scenario for each one individually. This based on their own experiences and usage.

Do you think you will have consistency in what people say or instead very mixed responses or differing opinions? Why not find out and I will stay clear from the thread but such will let you and others discuss how to get the best out of Simvibe. Maybe the forums needs more "Simvibe" chatter and less discussion on SSW tactile immersion if this is what people still deem to be the best option.

For example when asked once by someone what were the differences of "Vertical Surges" Bernies response was that they were "more spikey than some other effects", "acting like a background effect".

Now, just like my own queries at times to him. Does this response help a user determine how to better use the effect or just fine tune it to work with others? Does it make it any clearer if this effect should be used instead of another or combined with another?

Vertical Surges
What I would tell you about "Vertical Surges" can be based from testing and monitoring. Although such does not mean what I say is pure fact or 100% accurate. However, I do prefer to seek to know more about an effects operation or implementation than what Berney Villers usually divulges.

Test
Here is a test for you to try with only this effect active in AC.
Are "Vertical Surges" operational in gravel, or on grass at slow speed or when applying steering?

You stated, you are using "Vertical Surges" to represent "small bumps" and then also "texture".
So you would then feel the texture of the grass, the gravel and the wheels when turning the steering, yes?

Road Bumps
Yet hold on, why would you not use "Road Bumps" and "Road Texture" for this sensation? What are other people using for small bumps and road texture that you were seeking to feel? Oh but heck, are "Road Bumps" only for the tarmac, as its called "Road" bumps?


Let me say that in some cases the names/description of the effects themselves can cause some confusion. Vertical Surges has a clue in what axis it uses, therefore if it uses that axis it will only operate when that axis has telemetry data for it.

"Confused.Com"
Yes you are getting to grips with it all, understandably but here's my point with this. Where then do all the cool Simvibe guys hang out and discuss such? Where is the best place to find a guide or at least pointers to go in the right direction in setting up your Simvibe and digging into individual effects controls or operations of them. Just a place that people surely have formed together to help each other or bring simplified usage of the effects and settings?

It seems even after about 6 years of Simvibe being released we have loads of people using Simvibe but really probably a lot of people using effects for things they think it is maybe doing or representing when in fact we really are not sure about. So by this we can say we base our Simvibe vibrations and immersion on "what feels best" by our "own perceptions" or "personal preferences".


"Vehicle Physics & Telemetry Determine ALL"
Berney did at times say some useful things to at least bring more understanding.
This one above was my favourite as it helped me grasp, early on in my learning that bumps etc are not fixed values, with ratings of eg. 1-5 in strength. That tarmac, dips, curbs, grass, sand did not have fixed values either which were applied as we made contact with them.

It was the telemetry data based on the the users own input controls and the operation of the various axis that determined how/when effects operated. That values were constantly changing based on the physics and dynamics of the sims own coding.


My Past Testing
I looked into many things, one was also how the Sensitivity level with bumps could affect how the stereo positioning of bumps was placed on the L/R sides. Research also helped me determine that with Simvibe to get the most out of it (on the highend hardware) required placing often more than one layer for an effect. The reason was for example with "Susp Bumps" we may want to use a "low end" Hz for a big bump with different sensitivity and volume to having an additional layer for the same effect but then control the "mid bass" level with reduced energy but it combine with the layer for "low end". The same could be applied for small bumps by using more than one layer.

What this gave was better sensations, no question when good settings were used for the hardware installed. The problem was that all this is counteractive to the actual way Simvibes UI is and how we then have more and more and more controls to mess around with and multiple channels to contend with if we need to make changes to an effect.

In comparison, a waveform can be created to do much of this principle of "multi-layers" for control of the dB for different Hz for an effect. Bring even more sensation if desired too. Yet we still have simple selection of choosing a suitable .wav for the effect and then SSW easy interface. So this is a big part of why I have not continued with Simvibe as much.

I know I could take Simvibe much further than the average user, by applying what I learned but the problem is having channels with 30 layers of effects or more and no way to organise them or even copy settings/changes from CM over to EM is just going beyond a good idea. It becomes a tore and too time-consuming based on the way the software itself is and the limitations of the user-interface

Most can get by with simple effects as they have basic or moderate tactile anyways but if your seeking to get the most out of your hardware. By all means you are welcome to spend several months with tuning Simvibe and then sharing your findings. I slowed down my evaulations and stopped at approx 700+ hours of research/testing. I began to see the potential with the waveforms and a much easier to use UI in SSW.


If I may suggest, lets make this interesting.

Take "Bumps" as an effect that you make reference to them as being an issue.
Work on or find settings in Simvibe for the most enjoyable bumps you can create. Find the best profile from the marketplace, whatever but seek to get the very best for this effect.

Then when you do, lets test the latest bumps I have for SSW to what you come up with.
I will gladly give you a month to look into this to do a fair comparison within AC to then let you form your own evaulations.

 

[Michal Burisin]

Hey, so little update here, platform is getting ready:

This is underside, on top side, there will be rubber:

The Aluminium L-profiles are there to stiffen the board little bit, but it's 3 cm MDF, so hopefully it won't have much flex to start with, but mainly for the looks

I have let the rubber to air out on the sun as recommended in link I shared before and it really helped. Just need more sun now

I put the pedal construction for welding, so the pedal plate will be supported, so hopefully this will help with the pang / resonance I was getting. I'm picking it up tomorrow and it will go straight for powder coating. I'm tired of tightening bolts over and over again, so this is my last major iteration for the pedals, also because I think I did everything I could and I don't see anything that could improve the performance through installation. I can still experiment with minor stuff, but the base will be done.

From then, it will be up to amp / SW settings.

 

[Michal Burisin]

MIchal, youve jumped in heavily to this with a pile of money thrown at good hardware and materials. You now have to get it to work well and become enjoyable with belief/hope much of the work you thought of, or implemented into the build pays off. Yet it seems you want to do this or go about it in your own way. The amp settings is an example, the idea you need both Simvibe/SSW or even audio all mixed together, it's like evaluating things now deeming what must be done before you even really discover what can be done.

We need to walk before we run....
I advise you hold off on seeking to mix sources or how to go about this and leave that for later.


I may as well blow ideas or benefits of waveforms out my ass as most of it is just glared over and ignored. My hope was that you or others with the more advanced hardware would be keen to work together to put to the test created effects. By all means, compare them to what the alternatives in Simvibe offered and let the results of such be clear as to which seemed the best solution for a specific effect or indeed general immersion each could bring.

To properly, with much effort, fairly determine how good/bad some may of felt or operated. To use the combined feedback to then apply it in shaping the sensation for individual effects that indeed were more enjoyable, that get the most out of the hardware but also importantly represented the nature of the effect itself in a superb way.



Let me share that part of my early research with monitoring Simvibe. I even took into account quotes that "Berney" made to people in various forums asking questions and I went through at the time over every post regards tactile made on his own forums. Needless to say I scurried the internet for as much about the software that he had shared at the time.

You are welcome as are others to use Simvibe all you want but the majority of people are using effects not even knowing what they really are for as really even the man himself does not convey to the community much about their differences, their operation or any guides towards how they should be implemented.

"What feels best"
Was something Berney once said to me when I questioned if we should use compression/decompression with suspension or just one element? Oh sure I wanted the "more accurate" or "best trueness" to what the sim was offering as often in this world of simulation we want accuracy to the real thing.

Yet as often, he again was giving no clear information on the effects operation. So I dont think all of what Simvibe offers is just for realisim/accuracy but that some of the effects or options may use the same telemetry data but in different ways. This possibility for the user to go with just what seems best to them.


Bumps, Surges, Textures
Find me an average or even advanced tactile user of Simvibe to tell me the differences in these and why or how we should use them or combine them. In fact, go ahead and create a thread on the forums to have people having used the software for YEARS to describe to you what they feel or think is the scenario for each one individually. This based on their own experiences and usage.

Do you think you will have consistency in what people say or instead very mixed responses or differing opinions? Why not find out and I will stay clear from the thread but such will let you and others discuss how to get the best out of Simvibe. Maybe the forums needs more "Simvibe" chatter and less discussion on SSW tactile immersion if this is what people still deem to be the best option.

For example when asked once by someone what were the differences of "Vertical Surges" Bernies response was that they were "more spikey than some other effects", "acting like a background effect".

Now, just like my own queries at times to him. Does this response help a user determine how to better use the effect or just fine tune it to work with others? Does it make it any clearer if this effect should be used instead of another or combined with another?

Vertical Surges
What I would tell you about "Vertical Surges" can be based from testing and monitoring. Although such does not mean what I say is pure fact or 100% accurate. However, I do prefer to seek to know more about an effects operation or implementation than what Berney Villers usually divulges.

Test
Here is a test for you to try with only this effect active in AC.
Are "Vertical Surges" operational in gravel, or on grass at slow speed or when applying steering?

You stated, you are using "Vertical Surges" to represent "small bumps" and then also "texture".
So you would then feel the texture of the grass, the gravel and the wheels when turning the steering, yes?

Road Bumps
Yet hold on, why would you not use "Road Bumps" and "Road Texture" for this sensation? What are other people using for small bumps and road texture that you were seeking to feel? Oh but heck, are "Road Bumps" only for the tarmac, as its called "Road" bumps?


Let me say that in some cases the names/description of the effects themselves can cause some confusion. Vertical Surges has a clue in what axis it uses, therefore if it uses that axis it will only operate when that axis has telemetry data for it.

"Confused.Com"
Yes you are getting to grips with it all, understandably but here's my point with this. Where then do all the cool Simvibe guys hang out and discuss such? Where is the best place to find a guide or at least pointers to go in the right direction in setting up your Simvibe and digging into individual effects controls or operations of them. Just a place that people surely have formed together to help each other or bring simplified usage of the effects and settings?

It seems even after about 6 years of Simvibe being released we have loads of people using Simvibe but really probably a lot of people using effects for things they think it is maybe doing or representing when in fact we really are not sure about. So by this we can say we base our Simvibe vibrations and immersion on "what feels best" by our "own perceptions" or "personal preferences".


"Vehicle Physics & Telemetry Determine ALL"
Berney did at times say some useful things to at least bring more understanding.
This one above was my favourite as it helped me grasp, early on in my learning that bumps etc are not fixed values, with ratings of eg. 1-5 in strength. That tarmac, dips, curbs, grass, sand did not have fixed values either which were applied as we made contact with them.

It was the telemetry data based on the the users own input controls and the operation of the various axis that determined how/when effects operated. That values were constantly changing based on the physics and dynamics of the sims own coding.


My Past Testing
I looked into many things, one was also how the Sensitivity level with bumps could affect how the stereo positioning of bumps was placed on the L/R sides. Research also helped me determine that with Simvibe to get the most out of it (on the highend hardware) required placing often more than one layer for an effect. The reason was for example with "Susp Bumps" we may want to use a "low end" Hz for a big bump with different sensitivity and volume to having an additional layer for the same effect but then control the "mid bass" level with reduced energy but it combine with the layer for "low end". The same could be applied for small bumps by using more than one layer.

What this gave was better sensations, no question when good settings were used for the hardware installed. The problem was that all this is counteractive to the actual way Simvibes UI is and how we then have more and more and more controls to mess around with and multiple channels to contend with if we need to make changes to an effect.

In comparison, a waveform can be created to do much of this principle of "multi-layers" for control of the dB for different Hz for an effect. Bring even more sensation if desired too. Yet we still have simple selection of choosing a suitable .wav for the effect and then SSW easy interface. So this is a big part of why I have not continued with Simvibe as much.

I know I could take Simvibe much further than the average user, by applying what I learned but the problem is having channels with 30 layers of effects or more and no way to organise them or even copy settings/changes from CM over to EM is just going beyond a good idea. It becomes a tore and too time-consuming based on the way the software itself is and the limitations of the user-interface

Most can get by with simple effects as they have basic or moderate tactile anyways but if your seeking to get the most out of your hardware. By all means you are welcome to spend several months with tuning Simvibe and then sharing your findings. I slowed down my evaulations and stopped at approx 700+ hours of research/testing. I began to see the potential with the waveforms and a much easier to use UI in SSW.


If I may suggest, lets make this interesting.

Take "Bumps" as an effect that you make reference to them as being an issue.
Work on or find settings in Simvibe for the most enjoyable bumps you can create. Find the best profile from the marketplace, whatever but seek to get the very best for this effect.

Then when you do, lets test the latest bumps I have for SSW to what you come up with.
I will gladly give you a month to look into this to do a fair comparison within AC to then let you form your own evaulations.

You are right @Mr Latte, I'm way too enthusiastic and thinking many steps from my current point of view. Maybe with progressing knowledge, I will find out, that some of these ideas are downright stupid, but that's the way I always approach problems. I certainly don't intend to skip any steps. I'll see when they will manage to do the powder coating, I hope I will be putting it together over weekend

Once I have it ready I'm looking forward to trying your new files, if you would be so kind to share them.

At least for me, the SimVibe and SSW are both black boxes. I can guess how they operate / work with effects, but I have no certainty. I'm not sure if Andre share more detailed info how certain effect operates in relation to the sensitivity of the setting, duration and amplitude of the effect etc. Maybe you have it figured out yourself with more advanced monitoring devices.

I'm having just "what feels best" approach. So I'm using different effects for different purposes if it suits me, even if these effects are designed for something else.

The forums on SimVibe official website are quite dead, I don't check it there much. It seems lot of people are using software, but not many are trying to push the software ahead. I think there's request to move the advanced engine effects to extensions mode for over a year, but still nothing So the development is very slow or focusing on something else.

It's up to people if they wish to participate in SimVibe discussion, maybe I'll start a thread sometime down the road, when I have better understanding of SimVibe and its settings.

For example when asked once by someone what were the differences of "Vertical Surges" Bernies response was that they were "more spikey than some other effects", "acting like a background effect".

I have found out this myself, that this effect could be used as background effect with certain settings. I think if I will continue I think I might get decent setup, but let's see. I believe it's a lot about experimenting. Guidelines would be great, but we don't have those, so trial and error will have to suffice.

Test
Here is a test for you to try with only this effect active in AC.
Are "Vertical Surges" operational in gravel, or on grass at slow speed or when applying steering?

You stated, you are using "Vertical Surges" to represent "small bumps" and then also "texture".
So you would then feel the texture of the grass, the gravel and the wheels when turning the steering, yes?

Yes, you can feel grass or gravel even at low speeds, at least in PC2, I'm not sure if you get feedback when standing still and turning the steering.

Road Bumps
Yet hold on, why would you not use "Road Bumps" and "Road Texture" for this sensation? What are other people using for small bumps and road texture that you were seeking to feel? Oh but heck, are "Road Bumps" only for the tarmac, as its called "Road" bumps?


Let me say that in some cases the names/description of the effects themselves can cause some confusion. Vertical Surges has a clue in what axis it uses, therefore if it uses that axis it will only operate when that axis has telemetry data for it.

I found out Bumps are better for bigger bumps - can't pinpoint reason why, just feeling from trial and error. Road texture has high frequency and it acts like static from radio without much tactile feedback, therefore vertical surges set to low frequency work better for me.

"Confused.Com"
Yes you are getting to grips with it all, understandably but here's my point with this. Where then do all the cool Simvibe guys hang out and discuss such? Where is the best place to find a guide or at least pointers to go in the right direction in setting up your Simvibe and digging into individual effects controls or operations of them. Just a place that people surely have formed together to help each other or bring simplified usage of the effects and settings?

It seems even after about 6 years of Simvibe being released we have loads of people using Simvibe but really probably a lot of people using effects for things they think it is maybe doing or representing when in fact we really are not sure about. So by this we can say we base our Simvibe vibrations and immersion on "what feels best" by our "own perceptions" or "personal preferences".

Yes, it's pity, that the software stopped progressing, but I guess this will have to do before this really niche market grows some more for someone to see potential to do software with full documentation and ongoing support.

It seems most people will set SimVibe according to feeling and then they move to using it without constant tuning. This is also one of my goals, I would like to drive / race more than constantly tweaking with settings

"Vehicle Physics & Telemetry Determine ALL"
Berney did at times say some useful things to at least bring more understanding.
This one above was my favourite as it helped me grasp, early on in my learning that bumps etc are not fixed values, with ratings of eg. 1-5 in strength. That tarmac, dips, curbs, grass, sand did not have fixed values either which were applied as we made contact with them.

It was the telemetry data based on the the users own input controls and the operation of the various axis that determined how/when effects operated. That values were constantly changing based on the physics and dynamics of the sims own coding.

Yes, this is clear to me. It uses probably mainly suspension travel telemetry for road effects and the effects are varied to it's operation and the effects do not have fixed output, but the output is rather continuous than couple of fixed values.

My Past Testing
I looked into many things, one was also how the Sensitivity level with bumps could affect how the stereo positioning of bumps was placed on the L/R sides. Research also helped me determine that with Simvibe to get the most out of it (on the highend hardware) required placing often more than one layer for an effect. The reason was for example with "Susp Bumps" we may want to use a "low end" Hz for a big bump with different sensitivity and volume to having an additional layer for the same effect but then control the "mid bass" level with reduced energy but it combine with the layer for "low end". The same could be applied for small bumps by using more than one layer.

What this gave was better sensations, no question when good settings were used for the hardware installed. The problem was that all this is counteractive to the actual way Simvibes UI is and how we then have more and more and more controls to mess around with and multiple channels to contend with if we need to make changes to an effect.

In comparison, a waveform can be created to do much of this principle of "multi-layers" for control of the dB for different Hz for an effect. Bring even more sensation if desired too. Yet we still have simple selection of choosing a suitable .wav for the effect and then SSW easy interface. So this is a big part of why I have not continued with Simvibe as much.

I know I could take Simvibe much further than the average user, by applying what I learned but the problem is having channels with 30 layers of effects or more and no way to organise them or even copy settings/changes from CM over to EM is just going beyond a good idea. It becomes a tore and too time-consuming based on the way the software itself is and the limitations of the user-interface

Most can get by with simple effects as they have basic or moderate tactile anyways but if your seeking to get the most out of your hardware. By all means you are welcome to spend several months with tuning Simvibe and then sharing your findings. I slowed down my evaulations and stopped at approx 700+ hours of research/testing. I began to see the potential with the waveforms and a much easier to use UI in SSW.

The sensitivity can affect channel separation as in real car when you hit the bump on one side, it will impact the suspension on the other side, these both will get picked up and generate feedback. With lower sensitivity, the bump could be picked up on one side, whereas on the other side it falls below the sensitivity threshold level, thus improving channel separation. This is why I use susspension bumps effect with lower sensitivity for big bumps.

Yes, multiple layers of effects are probably way to go, but only to cerain degree. If you set sensitivity in one effect low it would pickup only big bumps. If you use same effect with higher sensitivity, it will also react to the inputs, the first effect is picking up, so there will be 2 responses for the same input. So it's problematic and will require lot of tuning as you describe.

It would be best one could adjust the sensitivity range. For example from 70 to 90 %. But this might not be possible as we don't know how the SimVibe is processing data, and it's rather pointless to think about it, as it's not implemented anyway .

I will see what road I will go, still have to figure out that yet.

If I may suggest, lets make this interesting.

Take "Bumps" as an effect that you make reference to them as being an issue.
Work on or find settings in Simvibe for the most enjoyable bumps you can create. Find the best profile from the marketplace, whatever but seek to get the very best for this effect.

Then when you do, lets test the latest bumps I have for SSW to what you come up with.
I will gladly give you a month to look into this to do a fair comparison within AC to then let you form your own evaulations.

I liked your implementation of bumps in SSW, never said the opposite. One of the reasons why I try also SimVibe is because it has 4 wheels separation. Maybe it's pointless in real world usage, but I would like to try to get best separation especially when I invested heavily in 4 tactile setup

Also if you have stiffer suspension on the back than on front for example, you will get different feedback.

I will surely try to compare SSW vs SimVibe in bumps. From testing I have done before SimVibe felt more universal in meaning that one setup fit more different cars quite ok (stiff vs soft suspension), in SSW I had to tweak the settings for these different cars to get reasonable feedback.

I will let you certainly know when I find out more and have something to share

 

[Mr Latte]

Too much to cover, its getting tiring....
Your best to form opinions on dedicated testing and comparisons not perhaps make assumptions beforehand. Can't say I fully agree with all that you said above though.

Differnet cars will generate different telemetry values, indeed.
The telemetry values will determine in Simvibe how much an effect will sway more towards the low or high tones given by the user. I believe this is controlled by the (Dynamic Tone Sensitivity) feature as if you test bumps with one extreme setting you will get more response based towards the small value and if to the other extreme then more towards the high value given for the tones that are generated.

With the monitoring we can see this, just as its possible to see many other things, but such can take time. If I want to monitor different individual effects on 4 EM channels to compare them I can. Say I want to determine what of suspension bumps/surges or vertical surges is more active than others, or what of the bumps generates more towards the strongest output. This can be done. Or if I need to see what all 8 channels are doing its possible. I put a lot of time and effort into this in the past to help or grow my own understanding. With this ability then, we do not need to speculate or second guess so much on how things maybe work or, we imagine how the 4 wheels operate with certain effects in Simvibe like your maybe doing here to some extents. Many of the effects work in a mono type fashion with a similar response to all 4 channels.

Yet really for suspension bumps, you highlighted having very similar Hz differences between the small and big values. If we take it that these values are only center values (meaning they also contain Hz either side) and not just use the value given. I would say, easily between 5-20 Hz with lowering dB is included on each side of the center value. It depends on the strength of the effect based on its amplitude, what frequency the center value is and how much of the drop may be felt from the center value point, both above and below its frequency.

So I would suggest you are giving very little possibility for much difference/variation between the values sensation for the big to small bumps. If you looked more closely at default settings you will notice that the values IIRC, may have @30Hz difference between small / large bumps and IIRC vertical surges even a bit more than this between the small and large values.

This is for a reason, so that it covers the (surrounding frequencies above/below) the (center values) but also then has some Hz range in between to help large bumps feel different to small ones. Not trying to be cockpy here but I hope it helps.


In SSW its different as I presume, it applies amplitude control to a .wav for the effect based on the telemetry values and then dependent on the gain level settings/conrtols the user has. So yes if a car has predictably higher values constantly to another then it may suit having different settings.

Its much easier to load in different .wav that someone has created for a specific effect, than arse about with Simvibe sliders and then wondering what they really are doing, don't you think? However how good or bad the .wav works will depend on the sensation it offers. So yes this is still a learning curve as are my own ideas to try to offer effects with multiple dB or frequency shifts to help suit different models of tactile or peoples varying installations.



The more you spend with Simvibe the more you will start to understand bits of it better. Although often the more you learn the more issues you can find too.


Not Exact but potential example:
Big Bumps Value 20Hz / Small Bumps Value 60Hz
See how each has additional "surrounding frequencies" either side.

Something like this for bumps, notice the center values/peak and how each slopes or drops off either side.

So by having "Small" bumps use its own frequencies and to have enough separation between the "Large / Small" values the user goes with. Notice in this illustration there is an approx peak of +4dB. Yet if it was lower then the slope or Hz used for the surrounding values would be thinner/less and these too at lower dB (more drop off) so felt less. In this example the user likely won't feel much below the -9dB level so we can ignore below that point.

Yet by monitoring it can bring much greater ability to not only have a better grasp of whats happening but see how settings can be paired to help bring improved output. I am not saying people should or have to go to such levels in buying or learning to do such. However no point trying to tell me, how you think something works or how say (sensitivity control) alters the channel operation for stereo-based effects.


Plugin / DAW / Hardware


As stated before, I offer to anyone reading this to submit a Simvibe profile that, they think is working amazingly. If they want to make it known and used in demonstrating or analysing how their settings are operating. Perhaps even comparing individual effects with SSW to see how things vary on each software option? The problem is comparing Simvibe to SSW with default files is not conclusive to what each can offer or the true potential each can bring.

If I seek the very best potential tactile immersion, If I am this serious about achieving that and want to build a cockpit that gets the most out of such. Then I have to look at what each can offer or learn the pros/cons each may have. Although as such is quite a time-consuming process soon we begin to see which one has the most potential for achieving effects or operation of them, more to the way the user wants and on the hardware they use.

You mentoned different cars/sims have a lot of variation. Yet not wanting to make much changes and spend more time driving than tweeking. This is understandable but it contradicts itself to some extents. I presume, the vast majority of people with Simvibe still use few profiles that cover the variations of different cars etc.

So how with the same settings or Simvibe profile can a user have good or close to optimal settings for so many cars or sims and not make slider, changes, not make alterations to some controls, when they mostly rely on so few profiles or general settings?

Is it not the truth, that many people run perhaps a single profile that feels good for them or they tried to tune to their own preference. However they then just go with "seat of the pants" driving and alter sliders to suit "on the go". Reducing an effect if its too powerful and boosting another if they feel it needs it when?

I sought to at one time in trying to get people with Simvibe into the idea of "Car Profiles" with improved tuning or settings for the cars and to share these. Berney shot it down on his own forums, they did not want to overcomplicate things or bring into the equation all the different tactile models. Nor did he want his software monitored in such way or effects compared to each other, even if it was to help users better understand controls/settings. On his own forums, he had this control.

I criticised them for not having, guides, nor for even having profiles they created themselves.
As to me surely Berney and his "Beta Developers" could of had at least some profiles made?

It was a justified complaint from my perspective, they do not like criticism at SimX, thats for sure but to this day the uncertainty and lack of community support to properly guide people to use the software remains the case still 6 years on. I have my own testing notes and things I learned, still much more could be learned but I made my choice on what software to invest my time and own research into based on what I believe would bring me the best control and tactile immersion.

The rabbit hole is deep, it has many burrows....

With the right hardware, lots of patience and repeated tests, we can learn a great deal to help towards bringing improved settings. Such can help evaluate how some controls and their operation affects the output. Once we feel we have optimal settings for the tactile hardware being used and the sensation we want. Then we can compare different software solutions in a much more detailed way than any user can just by feel alone.

I think you need to decide, what you want to use but this idea of mixing the two or even 3 sources with adding in audio too, may just form even more issues for you.

Michal, by all means if you are interested in helping with my own .wav creation for SSW you can PM me for files. However keep in mind it is testing, the files are given with the idea people return feedback. Part of that is finding things that work and also do not work so well. I can give you one effect with all the dB and frequency options to test on your own hardware. If you want the full set of bumps I will prepare them.

 

[Michal Burisin]

Some progress on the platform:

Wheels are temporary solution as I don't have separate PC for racing yet and also it will stay in the corner in the end, so it would be impossible to work on the rig as it's not possible to move it anymore as it's too heavy when everything is installed. Wheels will help me to move the rig in order to make changes easily while it's still in development.

Adding profiles to the MDF board parts is becoming really tedious, but I'm getting there, hopefully one more day and it will be done

This week I should have pedals platform back from powder coating, so it's starting to come together.

Still need to glue rubber sheet on MDF board parts and spray paint some accessories, but it's starting to look these 5 months of effort are coming to first more permanent build

@Mr Latte thanks for detailed feedback, sorry will respond later.

 

[Michal Burisin]

Hey guys, the beast is done!

My goal was to create something looking proffesional and not obviously home made out of wood and I think I managed to pull it off The wood is there, it's just all hidden under rubber plates / aluminium profiles I really love the pedal construction + plate - black powder coating on it looks great. It took countless hours / days / weeks / months, but it was worth the effort

Once I clean up couple last things and catch sunny day, I will make better photos with details and I will go through my findings, I learned a lot in the process of building the rig and the tactile and especially vibration management.

I did some initial testing and it's really awesome, especially after my last test which left me very disappointed. @Mr Latte thanks for last posts, the problem with piston pang was due to maxed out knobs on amps, I switched it other way around - soundcard maxed, amps amplified via settings at filter / crossover where necessary and knobs exactly at 12 o'clock. Some other things also helped with the pang a lot - mainly attachment / vibration mounts etc. @Mr Latte also thanks for all the input and support, I wouldn't made it without you. I never thought I will make it such big project, but you inspired me with your passion for tactile .

At first, when I started with 2x BK Advance, I never thought it would be possible to use something like this in appartment building with thin walls. Now it has 4x BK Concert, 2x BK Advance and 2x TST 239 and it operates really silently with great and strong feedback. It's all about mounting and isolation / vibration management. I have 2 main layers of vibration mounts, it gives the rig lot of travel - I think front on big bumps can get 2 cm of travel from the tactile units, the back little less, as there are stiffer vibration mounts. This gives smooth feedback and amplifies the feeling of bumps, I never tried proper motion, but I think this setup gives in addition to tactile very basic motion, or at least perception of it. I was heading this direction, but I never thought it will end up so well.

In the coming weeks, I will be reworking seat attachment, Kirkey aluminium seat will be here soon, so this will further improve the tactile. I will also be attaching harness tensioner which I have proof of concept ready and then I will go for g-seat based on servos. Also I have here SeaFlos ready for wind so lot of work ahead, but I will take it easy and enjoy it little bit Also I will have to dig in into tactile software setup.

@Mr Latte if you would be so kind and willing to share your files, I'm ready for SSW testing. Thanks!