Buri's Rig

[Michal Burisin]

Hi,

last month I bought my first wheel Thrustmaster T-GT and got hooked up in no time , then I figured I would need a rig, so I started with Next Level Racing GTUltimate V2. Despite good reviews, I haven’t liked it, the seat had a lot of flex and weird shape for me, so I returned it. Ever since I’m reading through the forums figuring out how to improve my setup, which is desk and wooden chair right now .

I have just ordered rseat N1 and HPP 3P-PRX-SE pedals as T-GT pedals were lacking, now I have some time meanwhile the orders arrives, so I’m figuring what to do next and tactile seems to be next best upgrade, so driving doesn’t feel so “dead”, although even without tactile this is most fun I had on PC ever .

As for the plans, I will be keeping T-GT steering wheel for now. Currently I’m building DYI handbrake, I have some parts ordered, so when I have some progress, I will put some photos up, maybe with little step by step tutorial if it will be interesting for anyone (I’m total beginner so I will be figuring everything out as I go). It will be simple load cell handbrake.

So far I ordered Handbrake, Load Cell, Controller Board, I hope it all fits together. I will solve mechanical part when I get my hands on the handbrake. I was thinking about hydraulics, but it seems lot more complicated and expensive. Especially when for example HE are using also just load cells in their top of the line pedals, so I figured it must be good enough for DYI handbrake as well .

For now I’m running laptop with CORE I7 and Geforce 1060 6GB and 24’’ monitor. This will be my next goal after tactile, but I will probably wait until summer or later when new graphic cards arrive and TVs with HDMI 2.1 with VRR (variable refresh rate) and possibly VR, this will be long wait, but I will at least have some time to gather some finances .

Then I would like to get DD wheel and in more distant future I would like to get seat mover, probably Next Level Racing Motion Platform V3 as it integrates with rseat N1 quite nicely. My inspiration is Diablo2112 rig, it looks absolutely fantastic!

I will be eternally grateful for any help / advice anyone can give. Many thanks!

 

[Mr Latte]

This guy had similar issues with noise/vibration @Ceolmor
I dont think he perhaps got the full result wanted but as yet I do not believe this member used any specific or specialised soundproofing materials. Seek his thread on the forums perhaps.

Another possibility is placing the rig/plinth supported by "granite" like those used in garden patios.
This could be cut to just a small enough size where weight/support was placed for platform isolators.

Lots of guys into audio/subwoofers seem to use hard stone as a way to dampen or control vibrations.
I think it with a combo of some suitable sound absorbent materials can only help.

 

[Ceolmor]

Hi @Michal Burisin

I have a BK Advance under my seat and another under the pedals. I am still experimenting and learning, but now I wouldn't be without them.26

I have my rig on the upper floor of my house. I spent a lot of time and money building a platform and isolating my rig (with the invaluable assistance of @Mr Latte ) to reduce the noise and more importantly the vibrations, felt by those downstairs. You can see my thread here. http://www.racedepartment.com/threa...le-immersion-help-please.139738/#post-2556220 You might want to skip to post #26.

What I can tell you is, as others have said, the noise will and does travel. Expect some noise. My wife can hear the shakers downstairs, which she describes as a rumble. But luckily, she doesn't complain or find it a particular problem, so I have not felt the need to add more isolation.

I'm not sure how much noise is travelling from room to room within the house and how much is travelling through the floor/ceiling. I suspect the latter would be more of a problem for your neighbours.

As I never had shakers fitted before having the isolation and platform, I cannot say how it would be without them. My guess is that my wife would hear more vibration, which would be a problem in an apartment.

My advice would be start with an amp and one or two shakers first to see how much noise you get and if it is a problem for your neighbours. If it's not a problem, add to it. If it is a problem, you will always find buyers for nearly new Buttkickers or iNuke amps

If you are in Europe and looking for BK Advance, have you looked at this UK company who it says ship worldwide? http://www.shakercentre.co.uk/aspbi...roductsID=105&content=bk44_advance_transducer

 

[Michal Burisin]

@Mr Latte @Ceolmor Thank you very much, I really appreciate it!

I have read through Mr Lattes suggestions and then read whole thread of @Ceolmor and it made me rethink lot of things. Nice job on the isolation and also documenting it!

You are right Mr Latte, no point to go cheap on tactile, as it wouldn't fit the rest of the rig and it might even be costlier long term, as I would probably want more sometime down the road

Tactile

I will go for the setup you described:

Pedals
1x BK LFE
1x TST 239 (Dual Role)

Seat
2x BK Advance (L/R Stereo)
1x BK LFE
1x TST 239 (Dual Role)

Amps
2x iNuke DSP 1000 (2x BK Advance / 2x TST)
1x iNUke DSP 3000 (2x BK LFE)

I will start with 2x BK Advance and 1x DSP 1000. I still need to decide if I will order 2x TST 239 + 1x DSP 1000 now or wait for later. I will be shipping probably from USA as shakercentre.co.uk is actually more expensive for me. With transducers no need to wait for the rig, these will take longer time to ship, so I will place order probably tomorrow.

I will use these 2x BK Advance on seat and pedals for now and later maybe upgrade them for BK LFE and move these 2 BK Advance for stereo on seat.

For those initial 2x BK Advance I would need:

1x Cordial CFY 3 WMM

2x Neutrik NL2FX 2-Pole Connector or 2x Neutrik NL4 FX - what would be better?

Pure copper 14 gauge speaker wire

If I would go also with TST239, you write, I would need some hardware to duplicate the channels and the cabling. What would I need? Is there any thread with this information?

Aside from that extra hardware I would need another pair of 1x Cordial CFY 3 WMM and 2x Neutrik NL2FX 2-Pole Connector or 2x Neutrik NL4 FX if I understand it correctly?

I will try to contact @signman about what he found out about transducer under wheel, or I will try it myself when I have it installed. I still like the idea having engine vibrations in hands, but don't know what issues there might be. Thrustmaster T-GT actually has transducer in wheelbase - only works with Grand Turismo on PS4 so I haven't tried it.

Isolation

The wheel height is adjustable, so there is no problem rising the seat couple of inches.

I will probably go with isolation from AV Industrial products you suggested in Ceolmors thread, as this company is specializing in isolation it should be good quality and the price is reasonable.

For decoupling seat and pedals I quite like Sandwich mounts. I hope if I will use more of these the seat won't wobble.

For isolation from floor maybe Cylindrical buffers or Flanged Mounts, the rig has 8 of these.

If this won't be enough I will probably build some platform from MDF, I really liked Ceolmors.

I will have to move a rig quite a bit, so the platform is great for keeping amplifiers, computer and other stuff behind the seat so I can move it all together, so I will have to make some platform anyway.

 

[Mr Latte]

Regards a platform for the secondary isolation I have done only some experimentation, still are materials and combinations I'd like to try and test with. What I have done thus far with some is shared things that either worked well when I was in discussion or making recommendations with others over the years.

Rubber, layers, neoprene isolators, wood combinations have been sufficient for some to greatly reduce the vibration issue within a home. With more powerful units and added channels or more units, then specialist solutions with additional soundproofing may be required.

Needing it to be mobile/positional brings another challenge as you then want to minimise weight but large rubber casters are available. Such could be applied to the base, however, this again raises the height of the whole cockpit.

Companies like the one linked are specialists in this area and I believe a very good working solution is possible. Just that such is going to need testing and trial and error to find perhaps the best all-around solution.
You may find inspiration or good ideas within the Home Cinema forums.

Starting with BK Advance is a good base to get a feel for the tactile and see how things go regards isolation/vibration. You can determine to go for stereo in the seat or seat/pedal installation. Do keep in mind if placing a mono installation for the seat and later wanting to go with stereo then that's going to bring additional work later. With stereo you want to try and maintain separation in that its the seat that forms the bridge not the frame enabling mixing of the channels prior to reaching the seat.

Duplicating Channels & Dual Role
I have since Jan, 3 guys in PM wanting info for rather high-end tactile builds. To also incorporate the "Dual Role" type configurations. Currently, I am seeking a new piece of hardware for duplicating the channels as I want to move up from the RCA/Phono solution that I myself have been using for a few years.

This will be using balanced XLR connections with the goal of ensuring best signal and no interference. I want to fully test this hardware and required cabling before making recommendations for it to others. Multiple solutions are possible but this I think is the best option. While it appears overkill in supporting 8 inputs its price is not much more than some solutions offering only 2 channels.

Behringer MS8000

Some good info here if you have not already seen?

 

[Milkie]

This post is probably too late, but I've used Anti-Vibration Cotton Bushes..

https://www.polymax.co.uk/anti-vibration-rubber-mount/cylindrical-vibration-bobbin-mount/

I have these between the seat / chassis and between the pedal tray / chassis, as these are the only things on my rig that have T.Transducers.

They work pretty well, the chassis doesn't have the high frequency vibration anymore.

 

[Michal Burisin]

This post is probably too late, but I've used Anti-Vibration Cotton Bushes..

https://www.polymax.co.uk/anti-vibration-rubber-mount/cylindrical-vibration-bobbin-mount/

I have these between the seat / chassis and between the pedal tray / chassis, as these are the only things on my rig that have T.Transducers.

They work pretty well, the chassis doesn't have the high frequency vibration anymore.

Thanks, I have something similiar in my mind, I will decide what exactly to get when the rig arrives.

 

[Michal Burisin]

Just ordered 2x BK Advances from USA, I could have ordered 2x BK LFEs from Europe and the price difference wouldn't be that much - around 30%, but it seemed as overkill to get started with these big ones

Now I wait, meanwhile I'll get to reading more on the subject - your thread with cabling, connectors etc., so I'm ready when it arrives.

Regarding TST transducers, do you think the performance is worthwhile in those higher end models? Price jumps are quite massive.

TST239 - 160 USD
TST329 - 364 USD
TST429 - 549 USD

 

[Mr Latte]

Just ordered 2x BK Advances from USA, I could have ordered 2x BK LFEs from Europe and the price difference wouldn't be that much - around 30%, but it seemed as overkill to get started with these big ones

Now I wait, meanwhile I'll get to reading more on the subject - your thread with cabling, connectors etc., so I'm ready when it arrives.

Regarding TST transducers, do you think the performance is worthwhile in those higher end models? Price jumps are quite massive.

TST239 - 160 USD
TST329 - 364 USD
TST429 - 549 USD

Each TST model brings better performance, no doubt about it.
Feels more robust yet more detailed and refined with specific Hz. One thing different with the TST range is that each unit is the same physical size. In some installations (not just cockpits) this may be a factor. The Neodymium magnets in the 429 are that strong you can feel the magnetism from about 4" off its surface.

Felt detailing in engines is particularly noticeable, wheelslip (*SSW) is another effect that comes to mind as better when compared to my Buttkicker models. Here also the audible sounds can bring an additional presence. While some effects may not produce the nicest audible sounds, harmonics can help generate an engine drone. We can even go further by mixing our telemetry based tactile with audio-tactile. This can bring an extra dimension to the immersion that BK will not deliver. Even with wearing headphones, if the tactile is set quite high, they can add a sensed audible reverb character beyond the headphone's soundstage. Part of this will depend on the users own build, how many TST they are using, materials and the room.

For our intended application, when combining a 239 with a BK unit in a "Dual Role" config the BK replaces or covers the extra low bass performance advantages the 329 and 429 models would have over the 239 or indeed a Parts Express 209. The BK bringing even greater lows which are important for some effects.

So really its a lot to spend to go for these better models for what they may bring from their own design and operation. I didn't set out to own what tactile I have ended up with, it just grew over the years and some were ebay bargins.

I just purchased a BK Concert to finally be able to do a proper comparison and have an understanding of its true operational differences to the BK LFE. I expect it will be good with engines if indeed it has improved power within the 40-80Hz range.

BKA is probably the best all-around single packaged unit for a cockpit, not best in any particular area but good across the limited dynamic range we use in tactile. Combine it with a TST however and it will take your immersion to another level.

 

[Turvey]

@Mr Latte
Is there a basic way i can set up butkickers to pc without sim vibe temporarily.
Just want to get them running then when get $$$ will get it.
Cheers

 

[Mr Latte]

Yes Turvey you just use the "PC Audio"

SSW is much cheaper than Simvibe and in many ways can be better. Its all down to the quality and design of the effects. I could share with you as I have some others my older custom test effects.

I don't know what to do as been advised by some based on a select group testing my latest SSW effect files.

To consider creating specific effects for the community. Yet go further in offering as a 1-1 service to people. A service in configuring, custom matching with their own tactile hardware and preferences. In which its possible to make available individual car profiles for different cars to buy that are tailored to a very high standard to each users own preference.

I've put a lot of time into it already and also on hardware to help monitor and create such. Although I do not see me personally using Simvibe that much now. With SSW and specialised .wav effect files to the ability we now have them, it's bringing more enjoyable and satisfying tactile immersion.

 

[Turvey]

Really appreciated mate.
So for a simpleton like me. Butkickers to amp , amp to pc audio?
Also do you gots a link for ssw software?

 

[Mr Latte]

Really appreciated mate.
So for a simpleton like me. Butkickers to amp , amp to pc audio?
Also do you gots a link for ssw software?

Search the forums friend won't be hard to find.
Sim Shaker Wheels

PC
Sim Shaker Wheels Software
SSW Soundcard (Asus DGX Recommended)
Connect 1-6 Channels to amp(s) inputs / INuke DSP recommend (2 channel amps)
Connect tactile being used to each amp (SpeakON connectors for iNuke)

I can't seem to link my own threads in my sig, so have links placed in the thread listed in my sig...

 

[Michal Burisin]

Not much new here, because rSeat chassis got delayed.

I already got here 2x BK Advance waiting for amplifier to ship - I ordered iNuke 1000 DSP.

@Mr Latte I was wondering if iNuke 1000 DSP is enough as it is rated 2x 300W - 4 Ohm and BK Advance is 75 - 400 W?

Another question I have is about possible parallel connection with stronger amplifier.

I will go for:

Seat: 1x BK Advance + TST 239 (dual role)

Pedals: 1x BK Advance + TST 239 (dual role)

I will be adding stereo later. I was wondering if iNuke 3000 DSP could run these 4 transducers all by itself?

I mean 2x BK Advance on 1 channel and 2x TST 239 on the other channel. The effects for seat and pedals are not stereo anyway, so it might not be problem if the amplifier would be able to handle that.

iNuke 3000 DSP

8 Ohm 2 x 440 W
4 Ohm 2 x 880 W
2 Ohm 2 x 1500 W

I read here, there are 2 options how to connect multiple speakers per channel:

"To add to the confusion, in multiple-sub systems, the total impedance depends on how the subs and their voice coils are wired together — in parallel or in series.

Parallel wiring means that the connection ends of each device are connected to the same things — plus to plus, and minus to minus. Series wiring means that the devices are wired one after the other — a plus of one to a minus of another.

Series

When speakers or voice coils are wired in series, you add their impedances together to find their total impedance. Two 4-ohm speakers wired in series have a total impedance of 8 ohms.

Parallel

When speakers or coils are wired in parallel, however, the formula for their total impedance is more complicated. When the impedances of all the devices are the same, their total impedance, when wired in parallel, is that impedance value divided by the number of devices. For example: four 4-ohm speakers wired in parallel have a total impedance of 1 ohm."

Would it be possible to connect it parallel, so it would be 4 Ohm / 2 transducers = 2 Ohm?

In this connection iNuke 3000 DSP should be able to power 2 Ohm 2 x 1500 W which should be plenty enough to power 2x BK Advance on 1 channel and 2x TST 239 on the other channel?

I was thinking this could be good in order to get rid of 1 amplifier and it would have only one downside I can think of and it is sharing same volume between seat and pedals which might not be problem at all. If I would want sometime down the road another 4 channels for wheels I would have to deal only with 3 amplifiers instead of 4.

I have no idea if this parallel connection is possible at all with these transducers and if amplifier would handle this load or if there are some other downsides or obstacles, as I have no practical experience with this.

 

[Ceolmor]

Just to update you. You may recall I reported my setup was noisy with 2 BK Advances. Well, one of them was faulty. It has been repaired and is much quieter now.

Looking at the number of amps some of the other guys have got, I suspect you need 1 iNuke per 2 transducers, but @Mr Latte will no doubt know.

If you can find one, if it were me I would be minded to get the iNuke 3000dsp for the 2 BK Advances. BK Advance has max of 400w while iNuke 1000dsp says it delivers 2 x 300 Watts into 4 Ohms, but I am advised it is unlikely to be delivering anywhere near that figure.

Where you planning to fit the TST 239s to the seat and pedals?

 

[Mr Latte]

Not much new here, because rSeat chassis got delayed.

I already got here 2x BK Advance waiting for amplifier to ship - I ordered iNuke 1000 DSP.

@Mr Latte I was wondering if iNuke 1000 DSP is enough as it is rated 2x 300W - 4 Ohm and BK Advance is 75 - 400 W?

Another question I have is about possible parallel connection with stronger amplifier.

I will go for:

Seat: 1x BK Advance + TST 239 (dual role)

Pedals: 1x BK Advance + TST 239 (dual role)

I will be adding stereo later. I was wondering if iNuke 3000 DSP could run these 4 transducers all by itself?

I mean 2x BK Advance on 1 channel and 2x TST 239 on the other channel. The effects for seat and pedals are not stereo anyway, so it might not be problem if the amplifier would be able to handle that.

iNuke 3000 DSP

8 Ohm 2 x 440 W
4 Ohm 2 x 880 W
2 Ohm 2 x 1500 W

I read here, there are 2 options how to connect multiple speakers per channel:

"To add to the confusion, in multiple-sub systems, the total impedance depends on how the subs and their voice coils are wired together — in parallel or in series.

Parallel wiring means that the connection ends of each device are connected to the same things — plus to plus, and minus to minus. Series wiring means that the devices are wired one after the other — a plus of one to a minus of another.

Series

When speakers or voice coils are wired in series, you add their impedances together to find their total impedance. Two 4-ohm speakers wired in series have a total impedance of 8 ohms.

Parallel

When speakers or coils are wired in parallel, however, the formula for their total impedance is more complicated. When the impedances of all the devices are the same, their total impedance, when wired in parallel, is that impedance value divided by the number of devices. For example: four 4-ohm speakers wired in parallel have a total impedance of 1 ohm."

Would it be possible to connect it parallel, so it would be 4 Ohm / 2 transducers = 2 Ohm?

In this connection iNuke 3000 DSP should be able to power 2 Ohm 2 x 1500 W which should be plenty enough to power 2x BK Advance on 1 channel and 2x TST 239 on the other channel?

I was thinking this could be good in order to get rid of 1 amplifier and it would have only one downside I can think of and it is sharing same volume between seat and pedals which might not be problem at all. If I would want sometime down the road another 4 channels for wheels I would have to deal only with 3 amplifiers instead of 4.

I have no idea if this parallel connection is possible at all with these transducers and if amplifier would handle this load or if there are some other downsides or obstacles, as I have no practical experience with this.

First thing to note is that "Behringer" like many manufacturers (they are not alone) list in specs, the (Peak) wattage ratings. I believe the term is "Peak Music Power Output" (PMPO). So these are not continuous usage ratings like "Root Mean Square" (RMS). While not exact but to get a closer idea to what the RMS ratings are (based on amp model and ohms being used) divide the PMPO listed ratings by 3. For example this would mean a DSP 3000 is @ outputting 300 watt per channel.

*Buttkickers own figures for min-required wattage do not seem to be essential with what we are doing here, in my experience neither.

My advice is don't get too wound up in what the ratings or numbers are.
Go with the facts, that many users have had such amps/tactile with no issues.

In simple laymans terms and to make this easy. From the perspective of using tactile for sim-racing via whatever your preference as the source is. Be this (Audio tactile / Simvibe / SSW) I have found that even a DSP 1000 model can power the larger Buttkicker units enough for continuous usage.

Buying the DSP 3000 model, and with it producing a greater wattage output, would perhaps bring more peace of mind in longterm usage. As the unit is constantly running less to its max potential. You shouldn't need to run the amp at its max output, if you have the units well installed in close proximity to the seat/pedal sections (even with a DSP 1000).

As for how to wire these and power them.
My preference would be to have the two BK Advance on one amp and then the two TST on another. We then set the "Crossover" and "EQ" contained within a profile for the amps and to suit the characteristics for each individual units. Bringing their operation to be to your own preference with your installation and its materials. This is part of the beauty with the DSP abilities.

Factors/Issues
I wouldn't personally go with 4x units on a single amp. Even though these could be wired in different ways to use various ohms (the amp supports). I understand what and why you'd seek to do such but feel its best to keep 2 units to a single amp and not place two transducer tactile units on the same amplifiers output stage.

You have to keep in mind that SSW effects being output, for the "Pedals" and "Seat" could be different and that those are (two individual/independent source channels). So they require the usage of two inputs.

Ahhhhh, yes you could have a TST and a BK Advance wired as (A) for seat and (B) for pedals but then you are mixing two very different tactile units on the same amplifier output stage. Each needing very different wattage and from my experience, if tuning them to optimal usage with the DSP then each really need their own settings.

The volume factor that you mentioned, would mean you'd have the same volume output to your seat and pedals. This also can bring a problem as the installation and path the tactile may have to take could be very different in the seat/pedal regions. You may not want the volume to be the same, so I think its best to place the two BKA on one amp and then the two TST on another.

Dual Or Solo
Doing it this way you can get the benefits of operating each in a "Dual Role" configuration.
If you wanted/needed you could also load a profile, select on each amp, to power only the TST or BK Advance models. Then operate as a normal single unit but still tuned via the DSP control options.

This can be handy when testing individual effects or in optimal tuning, as then feeling what each unit produces or how they may differ can be easily determined and understood. Its possible you may even want to give each unit 100Hz or more but boost/trim specific Hz within their operating range differently on each model.

 

[Michal Burisin]

Just to update you. You may recall I reported my setup was noisy with 2 BK Advances. Well, one of them was faulty. It has been repaired and is much quieter now.

Looking at the number of amps some of the other guys have got, I suspect you need 1 iNuke per 2 transducers, but @Mr Latte will no doubt know.

If you can find one, if it were me I would be minded to get the iNuke 3000dsp for the 2 BK Advances. BK Advance has max of 400w while iNuke 1000dsp says it delivers 2 x 300 Watts into 4 Ohms, but I am advised it is unlikely to be delivering anywhere near that figure.

Where you planning to fit the TST 239s to the seat and pedals?

That's great you managed to get it sorted!

No warranty claims from my side when something goes wrong with mine, as shipping would probably be too high to ship it back to USA. I hope your issue was something rare, on Buttkickers website they claim they are "virtually indestructible" so I hope it will be true

As for TST placement I'm not sure, I guess it will take some eperimentation. On seat I will try to place them probably behind lower back on seat bucket. For pedals it depends wheter I will run them inverted or F1 style.

Still will be longer before I will get TSTs, I'm waiting for pedals to be finished and when they are done, I will ship TSTs with them, it might take another month, everything takes so long, I'm trying to be patient, but is's hard

 

[Michal Burisin]

First thing to note is that "Behringer" like many manufacturers (they are not alone) list in specs, the (Peak) wattage ratings. I believe the term is "Peak Music Power Output" (PMPO). So these are not continuous usage ratings like "Root Mean Square" (RMS). While not exact but to get a closer idea to what the RMS ratings are (based on amp model and ohms being used) divide the PMPO listed ratings by 3. For example this would mean a DSP 3000 is @ outputting 300 watt per channel.

*Buttkickers own figures for min-required wattage do not seem to be essential with what we are doing here, in my experience neither.

My advice is don't get too wound up in what the ratings or numbers are.
Go with the facts, that many users have had such amps/tactile with no issues.

In simple laymans terms and to make this easy. From the perspective of using tactile for sim-racing via whatever your preference as the source is. Be this (Audio tactile / Simvibe / SSW) I have found that even a DSP 1000 model can power the larger Buttkicker units enough for continuous usage.

Buying the DSP 3000 model, and with it producing a greater wattage output, would perhaps bring more peace of mind in longterm usage. As the unit is constantly running less to its max potential. You shouldn't need to run the amp at its max output, if you have the units well installed in close proximity to the seat/pedal sections (even with a DSP 1000).

As for how to wire these and power them.
My preference would be to have the two BK Advance on one amp and then the two TST on another. We then set the "Crossover" and "EQ" contained within a profile for the amps and to suit the characteristics for each individual units. Bringing their operation to be to your own preference with your installation and its materials. This is part of the beauty with the DSP abilities.

Factors/Issues
I wouldn't personally go with 4x units on a single amp. Even though these could be wired in different ways to use various ohms (the amp supports). I understand what and why you'd seek to do such but feel its best to keep 2 units to a single amp and not place two transducer tactile units on the same amplifiers output stage.

You have to keep in mind that SSW effects being output, for the "Pedals" and "Seat" could be different and that those are (two individual/independent source channels). So they require the usage of two inputs.

Ahhhhh, yes you could have a TST and a BK Advance wired as (A) for seat and (B) for pedals but then you are mixing two very different tactile units on the same amplifier output stage. Each needing very different wattage and from my experience, if tuning them to optimal usage with the DSP then each really need their own settings.

The volume factor that you mentioned, would mean you'd have the same volume output to your seat and pedals. This also can bring a problem as the installation and path the tactile may have to take could be very different in the seat/pedal regions. You may not want the volume to be the same, so I think its best to place the two BKA on one amp and then the two TST on another.

Dual Or Solo
Doing it this way you can get the benefits of operating each in a "Dual Role" configuration.
If you wanted/needed you could also load a profile, select on each amp, to power only the TST or BK Advance models. Then operate as a normal single unit but still tuned via the DSP control options.

This can be handy when testing individual effects or in optimal tuning, as then feeling what each unit produces or how they may differ can be easily determined and understood. Its possible you may even want to give each unit 100Hz or more but boost/trim specific Hz within their operating range differently on each model.

This info put me on ease that iNuke 1000 DSP will be plenty enough for BK Advances.

I will keep all the channels separate (1 transducer - 1 channel) for now to figure out how it all works. For my second amp I think I will get 3000 DSP as it is not much more expensive than 1000 DSP to allow for some experimentation.

I was thinking that when I get stereo (which would provide suspension / wheel effects), the units on seat and pedals could be therefore mainly used for engine and shift effects etc. and it might not be problem that they share same effects / setting when connected to single amp. Although the different attachment or construction may require them to be tuned to their own needs for example not to cause resonance which would be only in pedals and not in seat with the same settings.

Regarding need for different volume on pedals than on the seat, it might be possible to solve it with some variable resistor on cable with power input on unit that would need less volume (probably pedals).

Having each transducer on separate channel is certainly best, I was just thinking about possibilities as I think I would never want to handle more than 3 amps

Thanks for the info!

 

[Ceolmor]

I hope your issue was something rare, on Buttkickers website they claim they are "virtually indestructible" so I hope it will be true

You can rest easy. The lubrication had dried out, which is why it was making so much noise.

 

[Michal Burisin]

So I'm finally able to post some progress!

rSeat has arrived, so has the Buttkicker, DSP 1000 and cabling. I have managed to put everything together and it's working! The rig is absolutely amazing. See photos below.






Everything is almost stock on rSeat, I just added some big rubber + metal washers on bolts, that are used for setting positions and are changing placements in order not to scratch this beautiful metal construction

I have attached Buttkickers Advance using this material to the rig as quickly as possible to be able to start experimenting.

Unfortunately I can't get SSW software, as it's neccessary to have PayPal which blocked my account and are not responding. Some of my friends have similiar experience, really crappy service, I can't understand how millions of people can use it. Rant mode off In the end, I found a friend with active account, who will try to buy it for me, hopefully I will get the software by the end of the week.

So for now I have tried it in "audio" mode which doesn't work for games at all, but I tested some low frequencies sounds and it's moving rig a lot I can't imagine how it will feel when driving with proper software. @Mr Latte @Ceolmor thanks for all the help, it really got me started in right direction! Otherwise I would have gone for those Mini LFEs which would suck with comparison to this

Couple of things I have noticed:

1) From pedals I get a lot of tactile even in the seat and vice versa, but to lesser degree.

2) I think lot of energy is running through the secondary construction and is not getting into the legs which are touching ground which is great, still will need isolation, but I was afraid it will be much, much worse. At least as perceived by me, vibrations going to the ground are not that strong, maybe neighbours in flat below me will have different opinion, time will tell

3) There are some bad vibrations, resonance in rig itself, I will have to address these individually. Now I will focus on main culprits - rods for adjusting pedals / seat position etc.

4) As the vibrations aren't as bad as I imagined I might try to go for big LFE some time down the road . Now I will be getting 2xTST239 - is there any other hardware beside another amplifier neccesary in order to run it in dual role? I have seen that @Ceolmor is getting Behringer MS8000 for channel duplication, do I also need this? Anything else?

5) @Ceolmor you are suggesting in your thread that Behringer DSP line could get discontinued, have you found more information? Do I need to stock up on them? Or there is some other option or they will release updated lineup? DSP features looks like they are quite unique. I think it would be best to has amps from same lineup, as you can deal with only one software, has same settings etc.

6) I will have to remove arm with keyboard tray, it's getting a lot of vibration, but I will keep it for now, before I figure other solution for keyboard.

7) When I fire DSP 1000, its fan is noisy as airplane going for take-off is that normal @Mr Latte @Ceolmor? I have seen some tutorials for replacing fan, but it seems to be worth it to possibly void warranty as this is unbearable - and this is just one, I can't imagine running 3 - 4 amps this loud. Do you have any recommended tutorial? Can the fan speed be linked to actual temperature and need for cooling? It seems to me running max rpm on fans from start is just unneccessary.

This is it for initial impressions. I haven't driven it yet, just couple of laps, it is really great how the rig is solid. With buttkickers in audio channel giving quite a small feedback it felt also much more immersive, I'm scared to go fast into corners now

I have to build some platform for the rig. For now I have notebook and regular monitor, so I have to push the rig in place everytime I want to use it and connect all the stuff which is a lot of hassle. I want to put everything to the platform to just connect one usb cable and power supply and be ready to race. As I don't have SSW yet, I have been busy with designing platform, more in next post

 

[Michal Burisin]

I will be building platform for rig to isolate it from the ground. When I'm at it, I will do it properly and design also for rear traction loss to be added in the future . For now it will be used just as static platform.

Here are the full plans:

1) Wooden platform alone - will have 0,4 cm thick rubber on top of it. It will have holes for wheels (darker red)


2) Metal reinforcments under the wooden platform (magenta). There will be isolation below, possible TI-300 if some cheaper alternatives won't be sufficient.


3) Rig to board mounting reinforcements (green) on top of wooden platform and on top of rubber


4) Rig mounting points (blue) - these are actual rig legs, which will be connected to green mounting reinforcements - between these two will be layer of isolation, something like this

5) On front there will be bearing (yellow), and inside holes in wooden platform, there will be attached wheels to slide on lower platform which I will deal with later.


Now I will be focusing on first 4 steps. First one is to get the wooden platform and have it cut to required dimensions.

I will not be doing the hard work myself as I don't have means - I live just in flat with no workshop and tools, but it would have been great fun I suppose. I will be left with some smaller tasks, but I hope I won't screw it that much

I have couple questions to get me going.

a) @Ceolmor I see you have used MDF material as suggested by @Mr Latte, are there any other materials besides MDF worth considering? I mean for example plywood, DTD, or this (I'm not sure with translation) etc.?

b) for metal reinforcments I'm thinking about steel, is it right way to go? Something like this?

c) for rubber on top of the platform I was thinking about this, it is 4 mm thick.

Thanks!