BUILD LOG: Racing + Flying VR Rig

Callsign BH · Dec 31, 2020

Hello all! New sim racer here and looking to start a bit of a build log for a couple reasons:

It seems like you guys like this stuff like I do
Because I know I am going to need some guidance and input along the way

Before I get into the present and future of my build, first I'd like to briefly share a bit of background. I'm 100% new to sim racing (currently focusing on ACC only, as I love GT3 cars), but I'm not new to simming in general...

BACKGROUND

Around mid 2014 I heard about Digital Combat Simulator (DCS) and given I spent my entire adolescence wanting to be a fighter pilot (before the Navy told me the dream was dead due to me being red/green colorblind) it seemed like something that might be relevant to my interests. Boy was I right! As I assume most of you have experienced, I quickly fell down that peripheral rabbit hole. Said "rabbit hole" become more of a "black hole" that I was falling down at hyperspeed, and the rest is history. From one HOTAS to the next, I ended up becoming very enthralled with the high-end boutique peripherals. Over the ~6 years since I started on DCS, I've gone through waves of being on and off with playing - "off" times being mostly due to my career taking too much of my time and/or other personal life obligations - and I've ebbed and flowed with my level of seriousness with playing. I've joined virtual squadrons and fought in the SATAL league there, I've read military flight manuals front to back to learn more about operating the jets, etc. To this day I still retain a love and enjoyment for DCS, although I haven't played much the past year or so.

Around June of 2020, after years of thinking "I should get into sim racing" (and being told as much by some of my flight sim buddies), I started to get serious about it. Again, I fell down that rabbit hole and became determined to get a racing rig put together. The twist this time was that my wife and I were expecting our first child in July, and we had just bought a new home that was undergoing a lot of renovations...plus there was a small global pandemic going on. Not exactly optimal timing, but life rarely lines up perfectly, so I said "Screw it" and proceeded ahead anyway. With the learnings from my flight sim hardware shenanigans, I subscribed to the "Buy Once, Cry Once" philosophy from day 1 here with the racing build.

I had never sim raced before, but I own an AMG and have always loved fast cars. In 2018, I did an AMG Academy Track Day @ Leguna Seca which was incredible and gave me confidence that I would love sim racing the same as I do flight simming. That day I was told by "Nipper" (my instructor for the day) that I "was a natural", but still I never took the leap to get a racing rig put together. Now that has changed...

PRESENT DAY BUILD

At the end of July, after the baby had arrived, I started ordering the racing rig hardware and checking hourly for the out of stock items to come back into stock. Below is what I settled on for the build and I ordered as soon as the items came back into stock:

Rig: SimLab P1-X (Black)
- Add-ons: SimFeet + Seat Rails + Seat Slider + Keyboard Tray + Mouse Tray + Cup Holders
Pedals: Wave Italy WAVE FORCE MONZA - SIM PEDALS PRO
- I ordered the 2 pedal set with no clutch, as I have 0 intentions of ever racing a car that doesn't use clutch paddles
Direct Drive Base: SIMUCUBE 2 Pro
Rim: Ascher Racing F-28 Wireless
- I wanted the F-64 but ran out of patience in waiting for Martin to get this back into stock
- I might add a new rim in soon, but TBD (would be a F-64 or a Gomez rim)
Seat: Sparco Evo II QRT

The Ascher rim took the longest to come back into stock, which was painful, but by the end or end of October I finally had everything I needed. Those few months of waiting were rough. Unfortunately, the waiting didn't stop there as our new home had some undisclosed water damage/issues in the basement, which required a very costly waterproofing system to be installed. This also meant that the finishes of the basement needed to be totally ripped out as they dug the perimeter of the cement up to install all of that. While this was quite costly, it did mean that I had a clean slate to work with for remodeling my man cave...so that is exactly what I did.

The contractors were here for a month or so getting all of that done, and at this point everything is mostly finished besides some things I am going to DIY myself, and then having the painters come (which we cancelled in early December due to COVID spiking again, and we will likely have them come in the Spring once things hopefully have settled down).

Here are some photos of the build....

PROGRESS SHOTS:

FINAL PRODUCT:

I have since cleaned up all the wires with some TLC on cable management. I will get more photos of that up soon.

NEXT STEPS:

Add a pedal slider to the racing pedals
Add tactile feedback to the rig
Add my flight sim peripherals to the rig
Build button boxes for both racing and flight
Add motion

With the guidance of @Mr Latte , I've gotten a small start on adding tactile feedback to the rig. Yesterday I ordered a Behringer NX3000D + 2x ButtKicker Concerts. Configuration of the two BK-CT's is TBD, but I am likely going to add one to the seat and one to the pedals. Unfortunately, the amp is on backorder under the end of January (yay, more waiting!) but once that is here it will mark the next big progress I am able to make on the rig. Once I get this all set up, I will work on adding anywhere from 4-8 exciters onto the seat. On my old flight setup, I used a JetSeat SE from Andre, which was very nice, but I know it will pale in comparison to what I am working on for this build.

Regarding adding my flight sim equipment to the P1-X, I still have some more thinking/planning to do on this one. Since we all love photos, here are some shots of my current gear...

FLIGHT GEAR:

Rig: WheelStandPro for TM Warthog
- Add-ons: Left Side RSG module
Pedals: Slaw RX Vipers
- Add-ons: Motorcycle damper
Throttle: Custom made Throttletek F/A-18C throttle
- Add-ons: Made with Halls sensor instead of a standard pot, and I procured ~$500+ worth of custom switches for them to use in the build, these are the OTTO mil-spec switches that are used in the real jet
Stick Base: Virpil VPC T-50 base
- Add-ons: Sahaj 15cm Black extension
Grip: Thrustmaster F/A-18C Replica
- I also have my old A-10C/F-16 Warthog grip from when I had a TM Warthog HOTAS

I've got some plans to change some of this stuff up a bit as well, but one step at a time...

Regarding the button boxes, I have about $1500 worth of mil-spec switches, rotaries, and other misc stuff that I purchased when I was planning to build a 1:1 replica cockpit of a F/A-18C Hornet. These are mostly Honeywell and EATON/Cutler Hammer, and are incredibly high quality with a great tactile feel. I've also got a landing gear handle from a GR-4 Tornado fighter jet that I will need to build into one of the botton boxes as well, as well as a landing HOOK handle. My point here is that I've got a lot of the materials already on hand that I can use for a racing box, I'll just need to add a few things here or there maybe.

While I've never soldered a thing in my life, and am largely not "handy" whatsoever, I did acquire all the necessary soldering equipment before...despite never finding the time to use any of it

Hopefully that changes in 2021, but I'm not so sure given it seems that newborns take quite a bit of your free time, and I've got a lot already on my plate. Someday, though.

That is all for now....the baby needs fed again...but I hope you've enjoyed reading. I'll get the specs of my rig and VR put up sometime soon. Looking forward to hearing everyone's thoughts and feedback!

Happy New Year to all!

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Edit to add PC specs:

GAMING RIG:

GPU: Nvidia RTX 3090 Founders Edition
CPU: Intel i7-9700K
- Still searching daily for a AMD 5900X to come into stock and allow me 2 seconds to be able to add it to my cart before the scalpers, and which point I will just go ahead and update the mobo, RAM, AIO, etc.
Motherboard: Gigabyte Z390 Aorus Master
AIO Cooler: Corsair H115i RGB Platinum
RAM: 32GB Corsair Vengeance Pro RGB 3200
Monitor: Dell U3415W Curved 3440x1440
VR HMD: Reverb G2

stigs2cousin · Jan 5, 2021

I think it would be better to add (screw) the flat bars onto the profile.
The bars alone had to be quite thick to not bend.

Mr Latte could chime in on the better acoustical solution.
I´d think that the bars alone would be more prone to vibration??

MFG Carsten

Mr Latte · Jan 5, 2021

Callsign BH said:
@Mr Latte you're suggesting perhaps ditching the two 2020 seat riser rails, in favor of having 2 aluminum flat bars that replace them? Just want to be sure I am clear, because I am intrigued.

The 8020 linear motion with a locking clamp looks to be an ideal option.
Unlike a seat slider that usually uses pre-drilled holes, this action will be smoother and adjustable/lockable at any point not just distances between holes.

If something like that was used for the seat sliding motion, then it also makes it easy to add metal plates to better support /sandwich the 64mm isolators between the seat risers and this mechanism.

For some inspiration look at how the Playseat F1 Ultimate rig lets the seat and wheeldeck slide.
Ive seen other cockpits use linear motion based options.

I really think we can do this, break down each element needed but of course with others helping and come up with a better solution yet offering improved isolation and performance of the BK in the seat.

If you want, then let's have people discuss and offer other options....
If you don't want this covered in your own thread then please just say.

Callsign BH · Jan 5, 2021

Of all options discussed to this point (thank you, by the way, to everyone for the engagement and offering of thoughts and opinions here -- very much appreciated), I agree with @Mr Latte that the 8020 linear motion with a locking clamp looks to be the ideal option for the seat slider mechanism.

I am held up in meetings at work all day today, so haven't really been able to dig into the vidoes, but watching the first one I think this is likely to be a winner for me.

Side benefit is that I can then repurpose the current Sparco seat slider over to be used on my pedals as the pedal slider I planned to add ASAP...until I run into clearance issues there too

Callsign BH · Jan 5, 2021

In brighter news, between meetings today I moved my seat down in the seat brackets to the lowest level I can (one hole set down from before). I also pulled my DD front mount all the way forward and ensured I had the height maxed out.

All in all I probably gained 1-1.5” of clearance from before, maybe a bit more. It will be awkward driving on it now because the rim is way too high from the seat, but I wanted to test this out to see what extra space it could give me. Plus the awkwardness will keep me motivated to get that fixed ASAP with the isolation stuff being added and the first BK-CT being mounted to the seat.

Callsign BH · Jan 6, 2021

Little before (bottom) and after (top). I think I will be able to make the clearance work just fine.

Alvaro de la Orden · Jan 6, 2021

That F18 throttle is pure p0rn so I hardly noticed your racing socks

metalnwood · Jan 7, 2021

Top shot looks high, bottom shot looks much better but you have changed the angle of your arms from 90 degrees to a bit more. Whether that will be a problem depends on how much force you run with your wheel as its certainly easier to control the forces with 90 degree bent arms than having straighter ones.

If it was me personally, I would have the pedals higher and a bit farther away, you can get more power when our leg is closer to extension and it may help get your thigh on the seat more taking some pressure off your tail bone as the weight is distributed more evenly. You dont want your leg at extension though, its still got to be able to move enough and freely to manage the pedals. This is a bit of a guess as a photo is not completely accurate to see what is happening. This may also help your idea to have the rudder pedals under the racing ones.

Re the pedals, I made up this to swap mine out. Very happy with this concept because there is no compromise on either pedals and it takes less than a minute to swap it all out, not long enough or cumbersome enough to put me off doing it.

Also, if you need to drop more as you work through things, I mounted my sparco like this. You cannot have a seat rail and at first I was a bit concerned about that as I have always had one but it soon became apparent I didn't need it but that is also helped by the fact I change my pedals so maintain ecactly the same seat position for either mode. The bottom of my seat is basically at the bottom of the side profile.

Callsign BH · Jan 7, 2021

metalnwood said:
Top shot looks high, bottom shot looks much better but you have changed the angle of your arms from 90 degrees to a bit more. Whether that will be a problem depends on how much force you run with your wheel as its certainly easier to control the forces with 90 degree bent arms than having straighter ones.

If it was me personally, I would have the pedals higher and a bit farther away, you can get more power when our leg is closer to extension and it may help get your thigh on the seat more taking some pressure off your tail bone as the weight is distributed more evenly. You dont want your leg at extension though, its still got to be able to move enough and freely to manage the pedals. This is a bit of a guess as a photo is not completely accurate to see what is happening. This may also help your idea to have the rudder pedals under the racing ones.

Re the pedals, I made up this to swap mine out. Very happy with this concept because there is no compromise on either pedals and it takes less than a minute to swap it all out, not long enough or cumbersome enough to put me off doing it.

Also, if you need to drop more as you work through things, I mounted my sparco like this. You cannot have a seat rail and at first I was a bit concerned about that as I have always had one but it soon became apparent I didn't need it but that is also helped by the fact I change my pedals so maintain exactly the same seat position for either mode. The bottom of my seat is basically at the bottom of the side profile.

Correct, the top picture is my "updated" positioning which intentionally leaves the wheel too high...

This is because I am trying to solve for how I could "make room" to cover my seat height rising by ~2" with the isolation materials being added below it. Once that is in place, the seat will be 2" higher and the wheel should no longer be too high. I agree with the pedals needing to be a bit further to flatten my legs a bit as well. Lastly, I agree my pedals can afford to be raised an inch or two (not sure if this also helps to flatten my legs?)...luckily, adding a slider + isolation materials will cause a 2-3" lift on those as well

Once I have the seat and pedals installed with the isolators under them, I can work on spacing of the seat and pedals (forward or backwards).

Very good idea/design on the pedal swapping. I will have a very heavy BK-CT installed to the bottom of my heel plate on the racing pedals, so not sure this would work out so well for me....but I have been brainstorming on something similar to this! Just need to keep thinking it through.

Mr Latte · Jan 7, 2021

Not sure if this is of interest as you may choose other isolator options
I have been working on/off with an advanced variant of the custom isolator solution shared.

It's about 2.5" uncompressed going down to approx 2" fully compressed.
It contains multiple materials I had purchased and tried over the last year.
Combining them into layers as one solution that performs better than off the shelf options including a few in particular that cost much more.

I am kinda torn as, interested in building a testbed and do more research. Part of me thinks there is perhaps a market for this type of product and wouldn't be that expensive. Specifically made to improve seat and pedal tactile for 8020 and custom builds. Well nowhere I am aware of, is offering such and tested with tactile for sim immersion purposes.

However to consider it seriously, the tools I would need to make them to the way intended would set me back about £400-£500, mmmmmmm.

Needs more thought...

Callsign BH · Jan 8, 2021

Mr Latte said:
Not sure if this is of interest as you may choose other isolator options
I have been working on/off with an advanced variant of the custom isolator solution shared.

It's about 2.5" uncompressed going down to approx 2" fully compressed.
It contains multiple materials I had purchased and tried over the last year.
Combining them into layers as one solution that performs better than off the shelf options including a few in particular that cost much more.

I am kinda torn as, interested in building a testbed and do more research. Part of me thinks there is perhaps a market for this type of product and wouldn't be that expensive. Specifically made to improve seat and pedal tactile for 8020 and custom builds. Well nowhere I am aware of, is offering such and tested with tactile for sim immersion purposes.

However to consider it seriously, the tools I would need to make them to the way intended would set me back about £400-£500, mmmmmmm.

Needs more thought...

If you've got more details/pictures to share, I am certainly very interested. I need to get some of the isolator pieces ordered very soon, at least for the seat, but am very open to buying directly from you if you've got something available that you think is high quality.

Mr Latte · Jan 8, 2021

Callsign BH said:
If you've got more details/pictures to share, I am certainly very interested. I need to get some of the isolator pieces ordered very soon, at least for the seat, but am very open to buying directly from you if you've got something available that you think is high quality.

I have some materials coming as working on a couple of options.
Want to see how the bobbin based solution compares to a compression spring one.

I need to consider a test bench made from that tubing I use and I suppose that could form as decent videos looking at different transducers vibrations with off the shelf isolators to what I have learned so far. What I am looking at potentially is an isolator package of 4 custom made isolators for £50-£60 that works better with a wider range of frequencies tactile uses.

I've spent that on some single isolator solutions...

Callsign BH · Jan 8, 2021

Mr Latte said:
I have some materials coming as working on a couple of options.
Want to see how the bobbin based solution compares to a compression spring one.

I need to consider a test bench made from that tubing I use and I suppose that could form as decent videos looking at different transducers vibrations with off the shelf isolators to what I have learned so far. What I am looking at potentially is an isolator package of 4 custom made isolators for £50-£60 that works better with a wider range of frequencies tactile uses.

I've spent that on some single isolator solutions...

I've got a month or so to wait for my NX3000D anyway, so I can hold off until you get worked through your testing. When are you thinking you might have them available to try (not sure how long your work above might take)?

Mr Latte · Jan 8, 2021

Callsign BH said:
I've got a month or so to wait for my NX3000D anyway, so I can hold off until you get worked through your testing. When are you thinking you might have them available to try (not sure how long your work above might take)?

I'm off work at the moment (furloughed) so have been working mainly towards my own build.
Let's see how things go as I have these ideas to improve the current solution.

I think to convince people to buy into such needs a testbed done to then do videos to show what benefits it then maybe brings. I wouldn't want to rush testing and would want to confirm from own bench tests they do improve enough over basic solutions to warrant pursuing.

Then if tests were positive, to see about refining with better tools and get some people with 8020 rigs to beta test before offering them for sale. Such could be done through the forums here but hey one step at a time.

Callsign BH · Jan 9, 2021

Mr Latte said:
I'm off work at the moment (furloughed) so have been working mainly towards my own build.
Let's see how things go as I have these ideas to improve the current solution.

I think to convince people to buy into such needs a testbed done to then do videos to show what benefits it then maybe brings. I wouldn't want to rush testing and would want to confirm from own bench tests they do improve enough over basic solutions to warrant pursuing.

Then if tests were positive, to see about refining with better tools and get some people with 8020 rigs to beta test before offering them for sale. Such could be done through the forums here but hey one step at a time.

I will just get everything else installed and forego any isolation installations until you’re ready to go.

Mr Latte · Jan 9, 2021

Okay, well just an update...
I have 4x different types of springs coming to compare some ideas. Also have some other foams ordered to apply with the alternative approach using the sandwiched bobbins.

Each option however combines different rubber compounds as well as other high-end vibration dampening and sound-deadening materials used in luxury cars.

Will keep you posted.

Callsign BH · Jan 14, 2021

What are the exciters of choice for the guys going the 2 big BK's + exciters route? Is it these?

Other (small) updates are that my NX3000D order was cancelled by Parts Express, I reordered from an EU dealer which has become a small disaster (details in the Tactile thread, if you're bored and care) -- will need to do some small DIY work to make it workable with my US home 110V electricity -- the bright side is that it will be here this week instead of late January/February like PE was projecting.

This weekend I am hoping to find some time to get the SpeakON cable cut and half and set up with the banana plugs. That's about all the free time I'll have. Baby steps, as usual, given the lack of free time with the baby. I'm still waiting on the backorder of the Dual Neutrik XLR / 3.5mm cable anyway, with an indefinite timeline on that from Amazon.

Callsign BH · Jan 25, 2021

Still no progress being made on the tactile build out bc the Dual XLR to 3.5mm cable that was recommended is still "On Hold" from Amazon. Once that gets here, I will get to work. Not a big deal, really, because the baby takes so much of my time and I've got other things to tend to with the free time I do get anyway. It helps me to prioritize the important real life stuff vs being tempted to spend it all on this stuff

The big event of last week was my HP Reverb G2 going dead on me. I still need to get around to coordinating the return or RMA, but, I'm not going to continue on the ride for HP's little trainwreck here. Their launch has been a disaster, so despite how great the clarity of the panels are, I'm not going to waste my time anymore.

I ordered my second Index and another SteamVR Base Station 2.0 (I had previously sold my old 1.0 when I thought I was going to be ditching the Pimax for the G2). All the new kit arrived yesterday, and I pinned the Index up against my old Pimax 5K+ that I still had. Again, as happened when the Index first came out and I ordered one, the Pimax 5K+ won the battle so the Index is going back. The Index is a phenomenal headset; great build quality and is pain free to run, but at the end of the day it's not worth giving away FOV for basically the same clarity as the 5K+. The biggest (and really only) benefit of the Index is that "it just works", but I'd rather not buy something new just for that. Resolution in both the Index and 5K+ suck (even moreso now that I had gotten used to the G2), but the Index doesn't have a single "wow factor" to it's credit -- at least the 5K+ has a massive 170* FOV in Large FOV mode which "wows" me every time I load a sim up. I swore off ever buying anything from Pimax again (terrible company morally) after my 5K+ pre-order, but I'll probably keep an eye out for a used 8KX in the future. I doubt even my 3090 can run ACC in that, though, so who knows.

You know HP really f'ed it up when I'm electing to fall back to using Pimax instead (who I thought had set the standard for being a PITA and providing terrible software/hardware support)...

@Mr Latte let me know how the isolators are coming along if you have any updates to share

I'm also still looking for some clarity to my query above:

Callsign BH said:
What are the exciters of choice for the guys going the 2 big BK's + exciters route? Is it these?

RCHeliguy · Jan 25, 2021

I used this one and it has been working well for about a year.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07K59J42N

Sorry about your headset woes

Callsign BH · Jan 25, 2021

This should do the trick, right?

1'FT-20FT Mogami Y cable Aux Audio 3.5mm Stereo Male to Neutrik Dual XLR-Male LR | eBay

Experience a solid connection and clean signal transfer, by virtue of these cables' no-compromise design. Ultra high density spiral shielding wards off RF interference, while a conductive PVC sub shield defends against electrostatic and handling noise.

www.ebay.com

Mr Latte · Jan 25, 2021

Recommended exciter is:
Dayton Audio DAEX32EP-4 Thruster
32mm Exciter Speaker 40W 4 Ohm

This cable looks decent but shop around on ebay or other musical equipment stores.

I did get some progress with the isolators, looked at several springs and different compounds of isolators. Its not been easy finding a good match in fit/stiffness.

Here are two options, a new spring combo compared to a sandwiched isolator. Other vibration/sound-deadening materials will be added with whatever options works out best.

It's getting a good combination that fits well and also can work better than a standard or single solution.

To mount these better would need a wider profile
Something like 80mm drilled in the center.

Still some options I want to look at but my focus is on my own build at present.