AMS and FPS issues down to 30fps

[Peter Klawitter]

hi all, have been wanting and trying to get into AMS, but am struggling to get FPS to stay constant or at show some overall stability.

test: Ultima GTR race
track: brands hatch gp
- no other vehicles

- graphics settings maxed out.
in pits starts with 95fps but then immediately drops to 50fps and during track drive lowest point is 30fps and max is 105fps.
- then graphics completely low.
and won’t get more then 128fps, only 2-3 turns with 143fps but dips down to 100fps on lowest settings!
“nvidia control panel” automobilista was there and followed AMS manual, did not help, so removed profile there and have not done anything there (clueless to be honest) even with manual of AMS where these are explained, not sure how recent and updated they are, since some options do look different.

(tests in all other titles, all close to 144fps, very stable, no stutters, 100-144fps and G-Sync working, mostly maxed out or 1-2 settings not maxed out)

system:
cpu i7-6850k
ram: 64GB
gpu: Titan Xp (pascal)
nvidia driver: “will update”
mobo: asus RVE
ssd O/S: samsung m.2
ssd drives: all samsung pro ssd drives
O/S: windows 10 64bit pro
build/ version: Version 1803, OS Build 17134.441

Video Config of AMS:


In-Game settings:


am OSW user with small MiGE (IONI Pro HC) MMos user and Heusinkveld Ultimate pedals.

is there anything i can do? change? suggestions?

 

[John-Eric Saxén]

@Peter Klawitter I see you are running 1440p triple screen, which obviously is very demanding. I don't think sims like rF2 or ACC will run anything near 144 FPS at such a resolution, more close to 60 FPS. My guess is that there is more of a CPU bottleneck as AMS is based on an old engine and not very well multi-threaded. One quick way to check this is to open task manager while the game is running and check if any one core is sitting at 100%. If so, then it's bottlenecked by CPU.

One more thing to check is that GPU is running in PCI-E 3.0 x16 mode. You can do this by downloading a tool called GPU-Z, which reports PCI-E mode on first page.

 

[RasmusP]

Hi Peter,
my first guess would be that your vram is reaching its maximum. The Titan got a massive amount of vram but with this resolution and 8x msaa it might be overloaded.
Please go on track again and when the fps are at their lowest alt+tab to some tool that shows gpu memory load.
Gpu-z, msi afterburner, Openhardwaremonitor, whatever

 

[RasmusP]

@Peter Klawitter I see you are running 1440p triple screen, which obviously is very demanding. I don't think sims like rF2 or ACC will run anything near 144 FPS at such a resolution, more close to 60 FPS. My guess is that there is more of a CPU bottleneck as AMS is based on an old engine and not very well multi-threaded. One quick way to check this is to open task manager while the game is running and check if any one core is sitting at 100%. If so, then it's bottlenecked by CPU.

One more thing to check is that GPU is running in PCI-E 3.0 x16 mode. You can do this by downloading a tool called GPU-Z, which reports PCI-E mode on first page.

Lot of truth but regarding visible cpu limit you're a bit wrong. Widows splits even single threads across all cores. Not perfectly even but it does.
When you do a single thread benchmark with cinebench you'll see it.
However you're right that basically all racing Sims are cpu limit on modern pc configs!

The only way I know how to check a cpu limit is by running process explorer, go into the properties of an application and select the threads tab.
Then divide 100% by the amount of threads you see in the Taskmanager (4 cores + Ht = 8 for my I7 2600k) and check if one of the threads hit this value.
For me it's 12.5% and I have drops in assetto corsa when I enable too many hud elements.
Doing what I described then shows two threads at 11% and higher and the moments the fps are dropping I'll see one of the threads hitting 12.4+%.

For me ams runs extremely well and without many ai on track Peter's cpu shouldn't drop below 100 fps. It might be the limiting factor for ams apart from this problem though like you said!

Please don't take this reply in a wrong way. If you feel attacked it's due to language barriers. I only wanted to share this in a friendly manner

 

[Peter Klawitter]

will do some checks, and also with the software you guys suggested, i am just wondering why only AMS has these issues. since iRacing, AC, rF2 (without those post effects, which i turned off, as i find it makes it look cartoonish), R3E and pCARS2 I have no isssues in any of them. that is what makes me suspicious of this issue. all the above run smoothly between 100-143fps, mostly staying 120-140fps range, almost at max settings (with few things lowered here and there) on my triples with 7680x1440p at 144Hz.

will get GPU-Z and OHM, report details and post screenshots here.

and no offense taken in anything, just trying to figure out why AMS is only title which can’t keep fps up. i was even thinking maybe it is brands hatch as a track, maybe test montreal or hockenheimring. see if that shows other numbers.

 

[Niels_at_home]

I suggested medium shadow details but even with low detail Peter seems to be getting low FPS. Shadows are a FPS killer at anything above Medium.

You might also try it with keyboard steering, to see if the FFB somehow slows things down, but its not very likely.

On our old office system with a 980ti and i5 cpu we mostly get 144fps when just hotlapping in AMS. As long as we keep shadows to medium, and don't use a lot of AA. That is also 3x 2560x1440, but might be on win 8.

I found something very scary a few years ago when trying an identical GSC (it wasn't AMS then) on Win7 and Win10, and found a 25% fps drop on 10.. Same with rF2.. I got scared, went back to win7 and ignored that result. It is probably no longer true with driver updates etc, or it is still true and everybody with Win10 is loosing 25% to the rest...

 

[Denis Betty]

There was the Windows Fall Creator update for W10, which messed with AMS pretty bad on Nvidia cards. The main effect though (AFAIK) was that it stopped AA from working. Made the game look a mess and unplayable. There was a work around using Nvidia Profile Inspector, but I'm not completely sure if this is still relevant? I'm just thinking that you may be get better FPS by adjusting/playing around with AA?
Just a thought.

 

[Marc Collins]

hi all, have been wanting and trying to get into AMS, but am struggling to get FPS to stay constant or at show some overall stability.

test: Ultima GTR race
track: brands hatch gp
- no other vehicles

- graphics settings maxed out.
in pits starts with 95fps but then immediately drops to 50fps and during track drive lowest point is 30fps and max is 105fps.
- then graphics completely low.
and won’t get more then 128fps, only 2-3 turns with 143fps but dips down to 100fps on lowest settings!
“nvidia control panel” automobilista was there and followed AMS manual, did not help, so removed profile there and have not done anything there (clueless to be honest) even with manual of AMS where these are explained, not sure how recent and updated they are, since some options do look different.

(tests in all other titles, all close to 144fps, very stable, no stutters, 100-144fps and G-Sync working, mostly maxed out or 1-2 settings not maxed out)

system:
cpu i7-6850k
ram: 64GB
gpu: Titan Xp (pascal)
nvidia driver: “will update”
mobo: asus RVE
ssd O/S: samsung m.2
ssd drives: all samsung pro ssd drives
O/S: windows 10 64bit pro
build/ version: Version 1803, OS Build 17134.441

Video Config of AMS:
View attachment 281089

In-Game settings:
View attachment 281090

am OSW user with small MiGE (IONI Pro HC) MMos user and Heusinkveld Ultimate pedals.

is there anything i can do? change? suggestions?

It's a bit of a pain, but you could do a quick bench test of just sitting in the pit garage (when you initially jump in the car) with a couple of variations:

Using a SweetFX profile versus not
A resolution @ 1080 scale instead of 1440
The two extremes of quality (FPS 1.5 and FPS 0.6)
A lower monitor refresh rate, since you aren't achieving the 144
Shadow settings, since everyone seems to agree those are most critical for FPS (they always were in rF and are in rF2 to this day)

These are just sensitivity tests--if anything unusual or interesting pops out, it might help identify the source of the problem.

 

[RasmusP]

Additionally, put the anti aliasing to off.
My bet is still the resolution + anti aliasing. 8x msaa means some thing are processed at 8x resolution. Speaking in supersampling this would mean 61.440 pixels horizontally!

Or the cpu does something strange after a while.

Anyway, we need to wait for Peter's monitoring reports. To know whether it's gpu load, gpu memory or the cpu or something else is crucial for finding the issue here.

 

[Jakal31]

Is DynaHUD still a thing?
I use the native, so not sure, but do remember so issues with that in the past...though I think it was fixed(?)

Definitely shouldn't be having issues in this sim with your gear.
I'm on Intel G4600 and 1050TI.....all graphics stuffs maxed out.
Though, I see Neils mention the shadows, this is an issue I've not experienced.

I do run vsync, and cap off at 60fps.

The inspector stuff is still relevant for me, at least. I have to set compatibility flags, etc etc to have good working AA. I'm running 4x SS, IIRC.

Marked improvements if I turn off the Windows 10 "full screen optimization" garbage.
That may be something to look at.

I wouldn't imagine AMS using up all your VRAM. Is it even possible for this sim to do?
I've never seen it max out my card, and it's only 4gb. Full HD, single 27" curved Samsung.

Maybe try capping your framerate. I find the drastic ups and downs cause little microstutters, and I prefer the sim to run fluidly verses chasing additional FPS.
I have ran at 120FPS, but I'm limited by monitor, so it's useless and I can't stand the tearing.

Are you using the SweetFX stuff?
If so, maybe turn it off, see if it's contributing to the issue(s)...

You say you got rid of the AMS inspector profile.....is AMS perhaps backing up and operating on your global settings?

I really doubt it's a CPU or a GPU bottleneck...it's something else, especially considering your stated performance in other sims/games that are heavier in that department.
Something else is going on, almost certainly.

.....don't know really, but just a few scattered thoughts and opinions from a fellow AMS enthusiast.

 

[RasmusP]

Is DynaHUD still a thing?
I use the native, so not sure, but do remember so issues with that in the past...though I think it was fixed(?)

Definitely shouldn't be having issues in this sim with your gear.
I'm on Intel G4600 and 1050TI.....all graphics stuffs maxed out.
Though, I see Neils mention the shadows, this is an issue I've not experienced.

I do run vsync, and cap off at 60fps.

The inspector stuff is still relevant for me, at least. I have to set compatibility flags, etc etc to have good working AA. I'm running 4x SS, IIRC.

Marked improvements if I turn off the Windows 10 "full screen optimization" garbage.
That may be something to look at.

I wouldn't imagine AMS using up all your VRAM. Is it even possible for this sim to do?
I've never seen it max out my card, and it's only 4gb. Full HD, single 27" curved Samsung.

Maybe try capping your framerate. I find the drastic ups and downs cause little microstutters, and I prefer the sim to run fluidly verses chasing additional FPS.
I have ran at 120FPS, but I'm limited by monitor, so it's useless and I can't stand the tearing.

Are you using the SweetFX stuff?
If so, maybe turn it off, see if it's contributing to the issue(s)...

You say you got rid of the AMS inspector profile.....is AMS perhaps backing up and operating on your global settings?

I really doubt it's a CPU or a GPU bottleneck...it's something else, especially considering your stated performance in other sims/games that are heavier in that department.
Something else is going on, almost certainly.

.....don't know really, but just a few scattered thoughts and opinions from a fellow AMS enthusiast.

He's not using dynhud according to his Screenshots in the first post
I agree with you but when you think about the resolutions used:
You are at 4x (ss) 1920x1080 = 7680x4320.
I'm not sure how msaa really relates to this but he's at 8x the horizontal resolution you're processing already including 4x ssaa!
If he'd use 4x ssaa this would mean over 30k horizontally.

 

[Jakal31]

Yeah, I overlooked the screen shots.

My inspector settings.
Using x4 in the config, 1920x1080.

 

[John-Eric Saxén]

Is DynaHUD still a thing?
I use the native, so not sure, but do remember so issues with that in the past...though I think it was fixed(?)

Definitely shouldn't be having issues in this sim with your gear.
I'm on Intel G4600 and 1050TI.....all graphics stuffs maxed out.
Though, I see Neils mention the shadows, this is an issue I've not experienced.

I do run vsync, and cap off at 60fps.

The inspector stuff is still relevant for me, at least. I have to set compatibility flags, etc etc to have good working AA. I'm running 4x SS, IIRC.

Marked improvements if I turn off the Windows 10 "full screen optimization" garbage.
That may be something to look at.

I wouldn't imagine AMS using up all your VRAM. Is it even possible for this sim to do?
I've never seen it max out my card, and it's only 4gb. Full HD, single 27" curved Samsung.

Maybe try capping your framerate. I find the drastic ups and downs cause little microstutters, and I prefer the sim to run fluidly verses chasing additional FPS.
I have ran at 120FPS, but I'm limited by monitor, so it's useless and I can't stand the tearing.

Are you using the SweetFX stuff?
If so, maybe turn it off, see if it's contributing to the issue(s)...

You say you got rid of the AMS inspector profile.....is AMS perhaps backing up and operating on your global settings?

I really doubt it's a CPU or a GPU bottleneck...it's something else, especially considering your stated performance in other sims/games that are heavier in that department.
Something else is going on, almost certainly.

.....don't know really, but just a few scattered thoughts and opinions from a fellow AMS enthusiast.

It can still be a CPU or VRAM bottleneck when running at such high resolutions. VRAM use increases rapidly with three times the screens and 1440p and CPU usage from rendering part is also to some degree affected by resolution.

Regarding CPU usage, it is true that Windows and Nvidia drivers have some mechanisms of trying to distribute the load equally between the cores, but I still believe this is inferior to having actual built-in multi-threading. rF2 was notoriously heavy and unusable in VR until S397 released the spring update with multi-threaded shadow rendering. It is worth to remember that AMS is based on rF1 engine, which was finalized somewhere in 2007, at a time when we could only dream about running triple screen 1440p resolution.

 

[RasmusP]

Regarding CPU usage, it is true that Windows and Nvidia drivers have some mechanisms of trying to distribute the load equally between the cores, but I still believe this is inferior to having actual built-in multi-threading.

Not sure if you misunderstood me
I didn't mean that this single thread splitting across all cores would include any advantage and definitely not that it's comparable to real multi threading. It's still a single thread and the Taskmanager basically just shows the average of all cores spiking to 100% for a reeeaaally short time one after another.
So if your cpu got 8 threads shown in the Taskmanager and you do a single thread cinebench rendering test you would theoretically just see 12.5% usage on each cpu thread/core.
While doing 8 thread cinebench would make you see 8x 100% usage.
Somehow beyond my knowledge this core shuffling gives a slight performance boost while it's also not perfectly even.
So instead of 8x 12.5% you see some weird stuff like core 1: 40%, core 2: 10%, core 3: 24% etc.
This also adds up to more than 1x 100%. My guess is that this is due to each cpu thread/core grabbing a chunk of the single application thread while the others are processing so things get sped up.

You still don't come even close to real multi threading!

All in all my main point was that you just can't see a cpu limit in the Taskmanager (only when all cores are at 99% ofc).
Only when you look at the cpu loads of the single threads that run inside of the applications, which process explorer can do, you can spot a cpu limit.
If one thread hits "100% / cpu threads" your cpu is running at its limit.

That's why the gaming benchmark battles between the amd ryzens and the Intels vary so heavily. For AMS for example you could add as many cores to your cpu as you like, it will result in basically no fps increase.
While a higher clocked cpu with fewer cores but a higher single thread speed will result in a nice fps boost.
So for AAA games xeons, ryzen, i9 etc are great but for simracing a really high clocked i5 or i7 will always be better (when not from highly different generations of course).

 

[Dave Stephenson]

There was a work around using Nvidia Profile Inspector, but I'm not completely sure if this is still relevant? I'm just thinking that you may be get better FPS by adjusting/playing around with AA?
Just a thought.

This shouldn't be required any more, the appropriate nvidia profile should be set directly in game based on your selection in the config tool iirc. I would suggest as some have noted above to reduce the setting or even run without AA while troubleshooting performance issues..

 

[Peter Klawitter]

hi all, so after testing for some hours...arghs! got it to go up to 100-143fps on Brands Hatch in the Ultima GTR race vehicle (testing) alone on track. (gained some areas of track 50fps and some 20-40fps)
huge impact -> Shadow to MEDIUM and track objects to HIGH (not FULL)
here are before screenshots, before I started testing in Sim:

 

[Peter Klawitter]

and here are screenshots during testing in Sim with the changes:

• had also Z1 dashboard running (didn't impact anything) with or without it

• so before the changes i was in the pits with 60/65fps, from Paddock Hill Bend to Druids, down to 38fps and was all over the fps to the finish line.
• now, after the changes to SHADOWS (medium) and CIRCUIT OBJECTS (high)
  • rest of the in-game settings are maxed out
  • no changes here, all left the same

 

[Case_]

There was the Windows Fall Creator update for W10, which messed with AMS pretty bad on Nvidia cards. The main effect though (AFAIK) was that it stopped AA from working. Made the game look a mess and unplayable. There was a work around using Nvidia Profile Inspector, but I'm not completely sure if this is still relevant?

I wouldn't say it "messed with AMS pretty bad", it really just created some issues with antialiasing, and only with the "advanced" modes as well. It didn't make it look like a mess (well, unless you consider lack of antialiasing "looking like a mess") and it didn't make the game unplayable, it just didn't have antialiasing. And I believe the workaround by setting the antialiasing compatibility flag to Diablo 3 still applies, at least according to my quick check. Note that I didn't update AMS with today's update yet. Also note that the antialiasing issues only concern running the game in exclusive fullscreen, it is not needed when running in borderless window.

There was also some kind of issue with DynHUD with Creators Update I believe that led to basically deprecating DynHUD (finally...) and the introduction of the new native HUD, but I don't think it was nVidia related.

This shouldn't be required any more, the appropriate nvidia profile should be set directly in game based on your selection in the config tool iirc.

It is required as far as I can tell, see above. The profile that AMS config tool creates for AMS in nVidia settings still doesn't include the fix/workaround.

 

[Devils Boss Didier]

sinds vorige week zelfde probleem met Automobilista 2 , frames gaan van 120 naar 30 en weer met alle andere spelen alles ok