AMS 2 FFB Discussion

[Manuel Staedel]

I just tested all settings,
RAW, informative, imersive, more FFB, lower FFB, LowForceBoost 0 40 80...
What I found was the same FFB like in pCARS2, the same damage jolt effekts, when you driving on small bumps, the over powered force, when the car are oversteering, the les details about the rear axle.
It's for me, the biggest disappointment in the year.
You don't beleive me?
Please take a seat in the StockCar or the Falcon V8, starting in Spielberg with clear wather in both games.
The detailed, RAW, real and comprehensible FFB, you are only get in AMS1. The same like rFactor2, but much more heavyer.
In rF² you feel the gene of rF². It's not like AMS but near of it.

AMS2-Beta is for me pCARS2 and i am realy sad, because my hope was realy big. So many people say "Stop! It's pCARS2! You should not beleve that it can be better!" But i say, "No, that are not SMS, they are Reiza Studios,, they have good guys, the have got Nils and he knows what he do."

What shuld i say?
I am realy sad and hopeless because that pCARS2-feeling will be not gone after the final release. If that be possible, than only with deleting it and copy paste from AMS1.
But what i know now, when you want to say, "Shut up and take my money!" Think before it. It's funny but expensive some times.

Best wiches from Germany, Manuel

I just testet the Ultima, OldStock, AJR... All the same. No Reiza-Feeling.
Kart and Caterham too. Are the 310HP Caterham damage? More than 170km/h not possible an Spielberg.

Btw.:
I am using the SimuCUBE without any damping or filterring.
But, AMS1 feels grate, too with the G27.

 

[Fat-Alfie]

Yeah, I think some people get confused between 'FFB' and 'PHYSICS'. Or say 'FFB is bad' when, in fact, the physics model is flawed.

 

[tolpi87]

yes I think so too ... has this behavior been removed / corrected? or have they just rewritten the ffb?

 

[Manuel Staedel]

I think, too, the FFB are the problem, not the physics, but, it gets together.

 

[Leynad777]

I suggest to go for additional tactile feedback, since the Madness Engine IMO delivers the best in this regard. FFB is always a fraction of the physics-output and i like it, but it can't be everybody's darling and seems a bit front-biased. I got my stuff working yesterday and wow, now i really feel what the cars are doing in terms of seat of pants effects. For best effects i suggest a quadrophonic setup, so one shaker for each tyre.

 

[Leonardo Ratafiá]

I know people love race department and Renato also watches the forum but it's much better to report or give feedback on their official beta forum like with any other game/sim. They have an official forum and that's what the expect to get the most feedback.
Of course it's always good to other readers like me in this case whi don't have access to the beta forum to check for opinions but what matters most to the devs is on their forum and you'll also get more direct replies I bet

 

[David Wright]

Yeah, I think some people get confused between 'FFB' and 'PHYSICS'. Or say 'FFB is bad' when, in fact, the physics model is flawed.

And some people say the physics is bad when they don't like the FFB. The other thing people confuse is setup and physics. You can have a crap setup and people will blame the physics. Then there are the really clueless who talk about boats and hovercraft.

 

[tolpi87]

Maybe I did not say it clear enough,
I don't know English and I rely on google translate!

project cars 2 has that artificial something that helps you in certain situations (such as Forza Motorsport and Granturismo)

in Ams2 is this typical of a simcade or has it been corrected / removed?

 

[Shovas]

project cars 2 has that artificial something that helps you in certain situations (such as Forza Motorsport and Granturismo)

I haven't experienced this in PC2. The closest thing to this would be the acknowledged over-tuned engine braking resulting in oversteer-off-throttle which can be alleviated in-game by editing your car setup and reducing engine braking.

I believe PC2 is actually a proper sim underneath but it confused people by its poor ffb implementation.

My question for Reiza would be did they take any hints from the progression of custom ffb files, Jack Spade, etc., but particularly the latest Christianson(?) ffb where the author claims to have enabled some disabled physics features of tire rotation.

 

[andrea1978]

And some people say the physics is bad when they don't like the FFB. The other thing people confuse is setup and physics. You can have a crap setup and people will blame the physics. Then there are the really clueless who talk about boats and hovercraft.

YES. My experience is limited to prototype (from 917 to r18) and the PC2 physics is great. But the stock setup are crap so you can feel many of the reported problems (e.g. oscillation... anti roll bar are frequently wrong).

Try the Jaguar XJR9 at Le Mans with a correct setup: it is impossible to say "bad physics".

 

[General_Failure]

YES. My experience is limited to prototype (from 917 to r18) and the PC2 physics is great. But the stock setup are crap so you can feel many of the reported problems (e.g. oscillation... anti roll bar are frequently wrong).

Try the Jaguar XJR9 at Le Mans with a correct setup: it is impossible to say "bad physics".

Doug Arnao worked on PC2 physics (a well known senior physics engineer in the game industry). They are really great. He also worked on rfactor, AMS and all NFS shift games. The problem with the physics on PC2 is the lack of time for development (I guess due the huge content). A few cars in PC2 are really well done, the rest are just fast and bad copy/paste with some variations. The same happens in AC. There are a few cars with good physics but the most are mediocre.

 

[scoobysi]

I bought the original PCars, enjoyed racing a few cars but spent far too long trying to get FFB right inc. Jack Spade’s files. I didn’t buy PCars 2 as I thought SMS moved on far too quickly and wasn’t convinced the FFB would be any better. I was interested in AMS2 but the fact they’re using the Madness engine has put me off, I’ll follow with interest to see how things progress, hopefully in a positive way.

 

[karoliens]

Doug Arnao worked on PC2 physics (a well known senior physics engineer in the game industry). They are really great. He also worked on rfactor, AMS and all NFS shift games. The problem with the physics on PC2 is the lack of time for development (I guess due the huge content). A few cars in PC2 are really well done, the rest are just fast and bad copy/paste with some variations. The same happens in AC. There are a few cars with good physics but the most are mediocre.

Curious which cars are considered with good physics and bad physics in PC2?

P.S. Can't have enough of AMS2 and I do not regret buying whole package. Dialed in FF settings for my SC2Sport and it feels great.

 

[Leynad777]

Doug Arnao worked on PC2 physics (a well known senior physics engineer in the game industry). They are really great. He also worked on rfactor, AMS and all NFS shift games. The problem with the physics on PC2 is the lack of time for development (I guess due the huge content). A few cars in PC2 are really well done, the rest are just fast and bad copy/paste with some variations. The same happens in AC. There are a few cars with good physics but the most are mediocre.

I think SMS did a good job with pCars 2 once and i spent over 1300 hours into it, but it got simcade with the updates because they wanted to please gamepad-players while most sim-racers refused it anyway. When pCars 2 came out, all other sims minus Raceroom were much harder to handle and all of them (minus AC and AMS1) dialed their physics down since. rF2 had this rear-traction-loss all the time as well as iRacing and people thought, racecars should behave crazy like that or it's simcade. But pCars 2 had some issues as well like calm FFB and not enough power on throttle (not the McLaren P1 or LaFerrari for example). I guess a rather easy to drive experience as ACC nowadays would be blamed for being too simcade as well two, three years ago and some still saying it.

AMS 2 for me it's the perfection of the great Madness Engine with the beasty behavior of untamed racecars, that SMS just failed to deliver too often. With my setup I don't want to drive anything else the next years and again. Tactile feedback is king. It's not just more immersion, it's far more information with any sim, but by far with the Madness Engine.

 

[UMC 22]

I think people are getting too hung up on the game engine being used. I mean, look at any other genre and there will be numerous games using the same engines too. Some of them are great, some of them are a steaming pile. Most of the time it is the developer that makes or breaks a game, not the engine. I don't see that sims are any different.

Just because one developer failed to produce a top-notch sim using the Madness Engine, it doesn't make it an inherently bad engine. A different developer with different ideas and a different philosophy might take that engine and work wonders with it. I mean, Reiza chose it for a reason, didn't they? I can't imagine they'd have done that if they had any doubts that they could produce the kind of quality sim they've built their entire reputation on. And while the beta and early release versions may contain "placeholder" coding from the basic engine, I'm sure Reiza will update and refine it over time just like they have with their other sims.

So I for one, am not worried.

 

[Leynad777]

I think people are getting too hung up on the game engine being used. I mean, look at any other genre and there will be numerous games using the same engines too. Some of them are great, some of them are a steaming pile. Most of the time it is the developer that makes or breaks a game, not the engine. I don't see that sims are any different.

Just because one developer failed to produce a top-notch sim using the Madness Engine, it doesn't make it an inherently bad engine. A different developer with different ideas and a different philosophy might take that engine and work wonders with it. I mean, Reiza chose it for a reason, didn't they? I can't imagine they'd have done that if they had any doubts that they could produce the kind of quality sim they've built their entire reputation on. And while the beta and early release versions may contain "placeholder" coding from the basic engine, I'm sure Reiza will update and refine it over time just like they have with their other sims.

So I for one, am not worried.

Not sure what you want to say. With my setup AMS 2 is already by far the greatest sim i've ever experienced

 

[UMC 22]

Not sure what you want to say. With my setup AMS 2 is already by far the greatest sim i've ever experienced

Not everybody has access to the beta though, do they? My post is a response to all of those that don't, some of whom are expressing concern about AMS 2 having similar flaws to PCars 2, and blaming it on the engine. Also, some of the posters here do have the beta, and are expressing the same concerns so... yeah.

 

[Leynad777]

Not everybody has access to the beta though, do they? My post is a response to all of those that don't, some of whom are expressing concern about AMS 2 having similar flaws to PCars 2, and blaming it on the engine. Also, some of the posters here do have the beta, and are expressing the same concerns so... yeah.

There will be always haters, but AMS 2 is the greatest sim we have today in terms of physics. People with low physics-output might prefer something else and FFB ist kind of stereo, not the 3D/6DoF-output i can enjoy. From my point of view AMS 2 is by far the best, even the others (ACC, rF2, iRacing, Raceroom) do a great job.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

Just because one developer failed to produce a top-notch sim using the Madness Engine

6 times

Engine:Madness Engine - PCGamingWiki PCGW - bugs, fixes, crashes, mods, guides and improvements for every PC game

www.pcgamingwiki.com

 

[UMC 22]

Please don't refer to people who give negative feedback as "haters". We all have our own preferences and opinions, none are necessarily right or wrong, and applying labels to people based on them only ever leads to flame wars. Thank you.

 

[UMC 22]

6 times

Engine:Madness Engine - PCGamingWiki PCGW - bugs, fixes, crashes, mods, guides and improvements for every PC game

www.pcgamingwiki.com

All by the same developer, so that really doesn't mean a lot.