Alright when was that again.....?

[Deputy Dawg]

Just to let you know - there's an all-driver BRM P15 mod in the works for Assetto Corsa. I'm busy working on the Lotus Eleven ATM, but it should be ready mid-summer.
Just about every driver is included: Juan Manuel Fangio, Stirling Moss, Peter Collins, Raymond Sommer, Jose Froilan Gonzalez, Hans Stuck etc.

 

[Mekonrider]

To be honest, I have never considered fuel consumption in a vehicle buying decision.

I used to be like that until I bought a TT that did 20mpg and it got a bit tiresome filling it up and looking at the cost. Bought a Cooper diesel instead and then a new motorbike for thrills.

 

[Fat-Alfie]

...there's an all-driver BRM P15 mod in the works for Assetto Corsa...

Scratch-made?

 

[Deputy Dawg]

Scratch-made?

No, they fit over Legion's BRM which he built as part of a Post-War GP race car set over on his Blog.
His latest version is much improved, with bonnet badge and better grills and louvres.

 

[mcmoha]

 

[harryturtle]

E-mobility 3.0! ;D

 

[David O'Reilly]

I hope you saw Llando Norris interview after the race.
He said that for him it was perfectly clear that they could exceed the track limits at T4 exit but they were not allowed to gain an advantage.
Llando himself yielded a potential pass earlier in the same spot.
The Stewards made a very clear direction that in qualifying they would be very strict but in the race more lenient so long as an advantage wasn't gained.
This is not unheard of. I have been in races where the same thing was announced (Donnington MX5 Supercup 2020).
In qualifying the drivers have 2 hot laps per session. Low fuel, perfect tyres and are on the limit. If they exceed T4 limits it's to gain the 2 tenths. Especially with Q pace so close amongst top 15.
In the race with high fuel loads, worn tyres, heat of battle, dirty air it's harder for drivers to strictly observe that limit and harder for stewards to watch out for it. So the call was made to all the teams that it would not be so strictly enforced.

Cue Red Bull complaint about Hamilton and the Stewards got a bit stricter and he had to watch his line more.
Hamilton defended very well on his worn tyres. He has done it before here vs Rosberg.
It resulted in Verstappen having to complete his overtake with all 4 wheels off the racing surface at the very corner his team had cried foul on Hamilton. This was clearly gaining an advantage. His line was a product of his entry speed, had he planned to follow the rules his own team had reminded the stewards about he would have had to be slower. His total off-track excursion was a part of his overtake.
Therefore he gained an advantage (like leading the race vs running in 2nd place). The outcome of the move was the definition of gaining advantage.
So while it may be an emotional moment for Verstappen fans it was in my view a totally reasonable outcome.
Whether by waiting and using his shot later in the lap at say the DRS zone at exit of T10 or the pit straight he would have succeeded we will never know.
It was great racing though.
Here is Llando

 

[BillyBobSenna]

I used to be like that until I bought a TT that did 20mpg and it got a bit tiresome filling it up and looking at the cost. Bought a Cooper diesel instead and then a new motorbike for thrills.

For me in Detroit, the difference between 20 and 25mpg is about $325/year. It definitely adds up. If I played iRacing, the saving could cover the cost.

 

[sparkyplug28]

I consider myself very lucky to have lived directly over the road from Walter Ernest "Wilkie" Wilkinson in Folkingham during my childhood, he was a mechanic for BRM and founding member of BRMC (British Racing Mechanics Club).

And then ten years later round the corner from the "The Maltings" the BRM factory which is still there to this day.

As a kid I can rember being told stories about that V16, one from a then 14 Year old Pete Green on his dads land up Folkingham Airfield ( Nelson M Green & Sons Ltd still own it to this day) when it exploded sending bits of engine sky ward straight out the roof of the hut he felt certain that no one could have come out the hut alive and at 14 stood there thinking what do I do, when the door was flung open and out staggered 2 chaps.

I firmly belive that these storys from locals and those involved a like got me intrested in motorsport of any kind and its stayed that way ever since.

So the news that Hall & Hall are building 3 more of these wonderful engines is music to my ears I look forward to maybe one day hearing one

 

[ParkYongLee]

The issue is, that the stewards see "gaining an advantage" only as "overtook and gained a position" and not as "cut 0.3 seconds per lap, gaining a gap over multiple laps"

 

[BertramRaven]

Salty Max fanboy???

Don't be silly. Just examining the data. Jumping to the "fanboy" insult says more about you than about me! Your comment is akin to saying the police can't investigate a crime because the accused is liked by too many people or is of a specific "identity-group."
I do not and will not subscribe to that kind of stupidity,

 

[BertramRaven]

While you are entitled to your own opinion, you are not free to create your own facts.
At the driver meeting before the race, the drivers were told that corner 4 would not be monitored. Leclerc and others attest to that.
Red Bull realized that Hamilton (and others) were taking advantage of the lack of monitoring and going wide, Max was then asked to do the same (note that they did not complain but instead did the same, the radio evidence is very clear)
Red Bull decided to contact the race director about Turn 4 and only then did the race director change corner 4 from “unmonitored“ to “monitored” with warnings and penalties .
This was a rule change during the race which was not initiated by Merc but by RedBull.
While it is fair to blast Masi for not being consistent, the lack of consistency was not intended to please Merc but instead to appease those who complained (Red Bull). Listen to Hamilton’s reaction when told he needed to stop, he certainly did not sound pleased by Masi’s decision.
So much for Masi being ”entirely in Merc‘s pocket“.
The rules were the same for all drivers, some were smart enough to take advantage of them, others did not for whatever reason. Interesting that No driver has complained about what was happening at turn 4 before the change of rules, only fans who do not know the rules are complaining.

There was no rule change in the race. The details of the drivers meeting are available on the FIA website. They were originally told the track limits would not be enforced for Sunday but that was retracted on Sunday morning and an update issued, but the rule was not enforced until an outcry on social media! That smacks of collusion at best or ineptitude at worst.

 

[Appie Kuipers]

Why can’t race fans have a favorite driver without constantly getting comments, so you can’t have a favorite soccerclub?

 

[Fat-Alfie]

Masi - “It was mentioned very clearly in the drivers meeting and in the notes that [track limits] would not be monitored with regards to setting the lap time [during the race], so to speak, however it will always be monitored in accordance with the sporting regulations, being that a lasting advantage overall must not be gained.”

When Verstappen strayed beyond the track limits while overtaking Hamilton, this was considered gaining a lasting advantage, and Masi was quick to advise the team to hand the position back.

“What was mentioned and discussed with the drivers at the drivers meeting is that if an overtake takes place with a car off-track, and gains a lasting advantage, I will go on the radio and suggest to the team that they immediately relinquish that position. And that was made very clear.”

“Red Bull were actually given an instruction immediately by myself,” he added. “I suggested that they relinquish that position as listed in the sporting regulations, which they did.”

“It wasn’t for exceeding the track limits,” Masi clarified. “It was for gaining a lasting advantage by overtaking another car off the racetrack.”

It seems to me that race control accepted that cars running wide at T4 was inevitable, from time to time, and would not be actioned. Verstappen overtaking outside the track limits, regardless of where on (off) the track it happened was always going to be illegal.

It's the same old story as any area of F1 when it comes to rules - sail as close to the wind as possible, right up to the rule and as far beyond as you think you can get away with, until someone tells you to stop. Same as flexible front wings, burning oil for extra power, F-ducts, traction control...

 

[fatal4you]

Masi - “It was mentioned very clearly in the drivers meeting and in the notes that [track limits] would not be monitored with regards to setting the lap time [during the race], so to speak, however it will always be monitored in accordance with the sporting regulations, being that a lasting advantage overall must not be gained.”

When Verstappen strayed beyond the track limits while overtaking Hamilton, this was considered gaining a lasting advantage, and Masi was quick to advise the team to hand the position back.

“What was mentioned and discussed with the drivers at the drivers meeting is that if an overtake takes place with a car off-track, and gains a lasting advantage, I will go on the radio and suggest to the team that they immediately relinquish that position. And that was made very clear.”

“Red Bull were actually given an instruction immediately by myself,” he added. “I suggested that they relinquish that position as listed in the sporting regulations, which they did.”

“It wasn’t for exceeding the track limits,” Masi clarified. “It was for gaining a lasting advantage by overtaking another car off the racetrack.”

It seems to me that race control accepted that cars running wide at T4 was inevitable, from time to time, and would not be actioned. Verstappen overtaking outside the track limits, regardless of where on (off) the track it happened was always going to be illegal.

It's the same old story as any area of F1 when it comes to rules - sail as close to the wind as possible, right up to the rule and as far beyond as you think you can get away with, until someone tells you to stop. Same as flexible front wings, burning oil for extra power, F-ducts, traction control...

How can improving your lap times not count as a lasting advantage?

 

[fatal4you]

Lews Fanboys: "He's so amazing, he is so good while racing that he is creating new track layouts for everyone of us. But only he is good enough to use them."

 

[Fat-Alfie]

How can improving your lap times not count as a lasting advantage?

All I can assume is that the FIA mean 'an instant and lasting advantage', rather than a cumulative one, as in this case.

If they brought back grass and gravel run-offs, they could let the drivers cut as much as they wanted, but they'd just be slower.

I am certainly not a Hamilton fan, but in this case I think it was the FIA who were guilty more than onyone else.

 

[David O'Reilly]

He had an amazing Beyond the Grid podcast appearance, well worth a listen for the curious.

Yes I listened to that one and it was great. He was very frank, open and informative.

 

[fatal4you]

All I can assume is that the FIA mean 'an instant and lasting advantage', rather than a cumulative one, as in this case.

It still doesn't make sense. The moment you cut the the track you gain the advantage and then keep it for each lap over those who don't cut the track. The lap time improvment does never vanish into thin air at any point. It like a jump start but for each lap.

 

[Damage Inc]

Michael Masi at the pre-race briefing -

"The track limits at the exit of Turn 4 will not be monitored with regard to setting a lap time, as the defining limits are the artificial grass and the gravel trap in that location."

He added: "In all cases during the race, drivers are reminded of the provisions of Article 27.3 of the Sporting Regulations."

Seems like the stewards were will to accept some running wide, but not continually. And of course, it is against the rules to gain a position when effectively 'off track'.

If the "defining LIMITS" are the artificial grass and gravel trap was Verstappen "off track" by those predefined limits?

Also When Lewis locked up and went wide (I think it was the same corner, not sure though) keeping his corner speed up meant his exit was not compromised down the next bit of track, thuis he gained an advantage over Max yet wasn't penalised.

FIA loves to help the established driver.