Advise on motion actuators

[Fleskebacon]

Ok, so I'm going to expand my rig with a motion system. I already have a TrakRacer TR160 rig with bass shakers.

What first caught my eye, was the summer sale for TrakRacer's own D-Box actuator system. But even at a summer sale, the price tag was a bit steep, at €5500 plus shipping and import taxes. This would end up at almost €8000, which for me is considerably more than it's worth.

Then, some further reading brought me to the DIY SFX-100, which comes in at quite a different price. But still, getting all the parts locally is next to impossible, so the only real option for me would be ordering a complete kit from AliExpress, which would come in at around €2000 plus taxes, ending up at €2500, which is more what I was aiming for. I have a 3D printer and like DIY projects, so the task of building, setting up and maintaining this kit doesn't really scare me. What scares me a bit, is that I would pay €2500, knowing that nobody will replace the motors if they go bad in three months, basically sending me back to square one, minus the €2500.

After searching for similar DIY options, I found the eRacing Lab RS Mega+, at €2400 plus shipping, giving me a total cost of about €3500, which is just within my budget. These seem like very fine units, giving me many of the same advantages as the SFX-100 would, and they are controllable by SimHub, which seems nice. They also come complete, and with a three year warranty from a seemingly serious business. And if I decide to sell the whole system, the resale value on these will obviously be much higher than some homemade SFX-100 units. So I reckon they're worth the extra €1000 for me.

The final question remains: Are there other options out there, which I have missed, that will do pretty much the same as the SFX-100 or the RS Mega+? I would say that €2500 plus shipping and taxes is at the top of my budget.

(And yes, I have tried searching, reading, googling etc. without finding a decisive answer to this specific situation.)

 

[Tronicgr_6DOF]

I got the TR160S and eracing-lab managed to design a solution for me to be able to mount the front actuators on this great looking but kinda awkward shape rig...

 

[Fleskebacon]

I went for the Mega4U, ordered it today.

I've been using SimHub for other purposes for years, and I'm really looking forward to setting this kit up. The VR motion compensation is one of the things that I'm excited about. I have a weak stomach (not a seafaring viking stomach at all), so I had a hard time adapting to VR in the first place. Adding motion to the equation could lead to an inevitable disaster, but I'm willing to take the risk.

If it all goes south, you will soon see an ad: vomit soaked motion rig for sale, really cheap.

 

[Tronicgr_6DOF]

I went for the Mega4U, ordered it today.

I've been using SimHub for other purposes for years, and I'm really looking forward to setting this kit up. The VR motion compensation is one of the things that I'm excited about. I have a weak stomach (not a seafaring viking stomach at all), so I had a hard time adapting to VR in the first place. Adding motion to the equation could lead to an inevitable disaster, but I'm willing to take the risk.

If it all goes south, you will soon see an ad: vomit soaked motion rig for sale, really cheap.

I'm more a screen guy myself. I have VR headset, was included for free in the used hexapod deal I got, but not really fond of it, got me sick when I tried it in walk around the room mode). So will reserve it for visitors lol.

Perhaps will strap in on visitors on the hexapod ... when riding as passengers

 

[rshummel75]

I went for the Mega4U, ordered it today.

I've been using SimHub for other purposes for years, and I'm really looking forward to setting this kit up. The VR motion compensation is one of the things that I'm excited about. I have a weak stomach (not a seafaring viking stomach at all), so I had a hard time adapting to VR in the first place. Adding motion to the equation could lead to an inevitable disaster, but I'm willing to take the risk.

If it all goes south, you will soon see an ad: vomit soaked motion rig for sale, really cheap.

I've been running the Mega4U for about a month now with Simhub and the built in MC and I've been quite happy so far, you'll enjoy it. The 150mm range of motion is great for capturing pitch and roll...when it's dialed in right you really get the sense that your rig/body is matching the slope of hills and banking on turns...but motion compensation is an absolute must or you'll be floating around in the car and you'll be puking in no time if you are prone to motion sickness. Of course, you can also dial back pitch and roll if you need to, but if you can tolerate the motion, it's incredibly immersive. Good luck with it and enjoy!

 

[Fleskebacon]

I've been running the Mega4U for about a month now with Simhub and the built in MC and I've been quite happy so far, you'll enjoy it. The 150mm range of motion is great for capturing pitch and roll...when it's dialed in right you really get the sense that your rig/body is matching the slope of hills and banking on turns...but motion compensation is an absolute must or you'll be floating around in the car and you'll be puking in no time if you are prone to motion sickness. Of course, you can also dial back pitch and roll if you need to, but if you can tolerate the motion, it's incredibly immersive. Good luck with it and enjoy!

Thanks.

I'm seeing mixed opinions on translating surge and g-forces into pitch and roll, what are your thoughts about that with this setup?

My experiences with bass shakers are that the trick is to keep things simple, and not to mix a bunch of effects which will just feel like noise. I guess the same is even more true for a motion setup?

 

[rshummel75]

I run surge, sway, and heave (Simhub has these under the "Accelerations" category) but at low gain and just a couple millimeters of motion so that what my body feels is in sync with what I see the car doing through the headset when accelerating, braking, swaying in turns...the actual amount the rig is pitching and rolling is barely perceptible to an outside observer...I'm in the camp of making the rig motion feel like it matches the car motion I'm seeing in the headset and forget trying to mimic g-forces with exaggerated motion or other techniques...it won't work well and will probably be more of a distraction than add immersion.

I agree about not running too many effects and this will apply with motion too...I use my shakers for engine vibes, wheel slip, ABS, gearshifts, and that's it. For motion I've got pitch and roll, plus just a bit of surge, sway, and heave (heave is nice for capturing the car bouncing around as it goes over small bumps and imperfections in the track). There's also a whole section of effects under "Haptics" but I don't use any of these except for a bit of traction loss. Any more I think would turn the motion into a muddy mess.

Of course this stuff is so subjective and about personal preference, so what I like may be rubbish to others.

cheers

 

[Fleskebacon]

The "less is more" saying really applies to motion in VR. I'm doing pretty much the same, a little bit (1-2 deg) of surge and sway, just to feel gear kicks, suddens changes in direction and the most fun part: When bumping into other cars.

But I'm having a huge issue: My Quest 2 is obviously not happy with the motion rig. It can work fine for a while, but it regularly stops working. It does not immidiately disconnect, but the tracking stops working, and the image is warped and with a lot of static and artefacts. And then it disconnects after a while. I'm using the official Meta link cable, and the problem has never happened before, and it does not ever happen if I use it with the motion turned off.

So it's quite obvious that the motion actuators are doing this.

I've tried routing the cables differently, with the link cable as far away from actuators and other cables as possible, but no luck.

Anyone have any insight on this? It's quite frustrating.

 

[MarkModdy]

Might be EMI interference, possibly you could try adding a ferrite ring to the Quest cable to see if that filters it out maybe?… sounds like it builds up as you use it to the point that it then causes your quest 2 to ‘fall over’

 

[Fleskebacon]

Might be EMI interference, possibly you could try adding a ferrite ring to the Quest cable to see if that filters it out maybe?… sounds like it builds up as you use it to the point that it then causes your quest 2 to ‘fall over’

Forgot to mention, I have added two ferrite rings to the link cable, one in each end. And I have everything grounded to the rig, even added a separate cable from the pc chassis to the rig, just to be sure. No help.

I also fastened each end of the cable, to make sure it doesn't wiggle around in the sockets. I haven't been able to replicate the issue by wiggling the connections either, they seem rock solid until I wiggle them so much that the connection just drops.

And it also seems to me like it's something that builds up, because it usually works just fine for a while, anywhere between 15 and 60 minutes, and then it happens. And very often, when the connection has gone bad and I have to quit everything, the connection is finally terminated the same moment I turn off the motion actuators.

Would there be any point in adding ferrite rings to the actuator cables? The power cables have an EMI filter fitted, and all the cables are shielded, so ferrite rings will probably have a very marginal effect on top of that?

 

[DonDonki]

Head similar problem with Pimax VR and when I had the DIY SFX100. I added a HUGE ferrite to the Pimax cable then issue disappeared. Now my new system has EMI filter, and the Pimax does not need the ferrite to stay connected. You can also try different USB cable to connect the THANOS controller.

 

[Fleskebacon]

During the day, I have made several attempts to solve the issue.

1. Added two more, huge ferrite rings to the link cable, no help.
2. Checked for proper ground connection a lot of places around the rig and the connected equipment, everything seems to be properly grounded and connected to the same mains ground.
3. Disconnected the whole motion system, rerouted all cables and relocated the drivers to the other side of the rig, and connected them to another mains outlet, but still on the same breaker.
4. Disabled Wifi on the Quest 2.
5. Disconnected my bass shaker system which is driven by an amp with probably no ground connection...

It's a bit early to celebrate, because I haven't tested it over an extended time period yet, but after these steps, the system has been working flawlessly.

If it keeps working good, I will reintroduce step 3, 4 and 5 in turn, to see if the problem returns, to properly identify the most likely culprit. I have my bets on step 5, but you never know. Will update.

 

[wickfut]

The "less is more" saying really applies to motion in VR. I'm doing pretty much the same, a little bit (1-2 deg) of surge and sway, just to feel gear kicks, suddens changes in direction and the most fun part: When bumping into other cars.

But I'm having a huge issue: My Quest 2 is obviously not happy with the motion rig. It can work fine for a while, but it regularly stops working. It does not immidiately disconnect, but the tracking stops working, and the image is warped and with a lot of static and artefacts. And then it disconnects after a while. I'm using the official Meta link cable, and the problem has never happened before, and it does not ever happen if I use it with the motion turned off.

So it's quite obvious that the motion actuators are doing this.

I've tried routing the cables differently, with the link cable as far away from actuators and other cables as possible, but no luck.

Anyone have any insight on this? It's quite frustrating.

I couldn't play at all with a Varjo Aero as the tracking would lose sight of the base stations and the screen would go grey.
I bought a cheap EMI detector off amazon to find out where the issue was, it ended up being the cables in my system, so I bought 2x EMI fabric sheets off amazon. Cut each sheet into 4x strips and then bandaged wrapped each of the actuator cables. Finished it with some plastic sleave to stop it from fraying.
Place your PC and screen on the front of the rig with any wheel/shifter cables running together down one side and place the actuator controllers on the rear of the rig with the actuator cables running down the opposing side of the rig.
I did try all the large ferrite magnets etc but they didn't seem to do much.
Very frustrating isn't it, but it can be fixed.

 

[Fleskebacon]

I'm in the process of figuring it out, and at the moment things are working well.

It seems that the placement of the actuator controllers affects the problems. Perhaps placing them like you say, as far away from the pc as possible, is the best solution. My experiences also point in that direction.

It also seems that plugging the actuators into a different wall outlet actually helps, even if I must say I'm skeptical about why this would matter, because the other outlet is still on the same breaker and ground circuit.

These are the only two things I have tried, that actually seem to make a difference.

My cables are already shielded, so shielding them even more probably won't do much good. But a cheap EMI-meter sounds fun. Does it measure any difference before and after your shielding? And were the cables shielded already?

 

[wickfut]

Yes, my cables are supposed to be shielded already.
Yes. it measures zero with the EMI fabric installed and goes bonkers flashing red and beeping without it installed.
My box which holds the controllers reads zero on the meter. Only the cables trigger it. Also no spaghetti knots in the cables. Lay them long ways and double back straight with the surplus seemed to work better.

 

[Fleskebacon]

Yes, that might also be a trick, to avoid cable spaghetti. When I relocated the controllers, I also straightened and organised the cables better, might as well be that was the trick.

This is interesting.

 

[blekenbleu]

It also seems that plugging the actuators into a different wall outlet actually helps, even if I must say I'm skeptical about why this would matter, because the other outlet is still on the same breaker and ground circuit.

Wiring can deteriorate over time, with so-called "cold flow"
where heat cycles cause wires to expand and contract under screws in wall outlets
as well as at circuit breakers. There could be a loose and/or corroded wire connection
at the PC wall outlet, so that actuator current surges provoked voltage fluctuations to the PC.

 

[Fleskebacon]

Wiring can deteriorate over time, with so-called "cold flow"
where heat cycles cause wires to expand and contract under screws in wall outlets
as well as at circuit breakers. There could be a loose and/or corroded wire connection
at the PC wall outlet, so that actuator current surges provoked voltage fluctuations to the PC.

This has crossed my mind, that even with perfectly good wiring, the motion actuators draw enough current to create small voltage fluctuations. And my pc has been overclocked. It has been running stable for so long that I didn't really think about it, but I now realise it may have been running on the edge, so that even the smallest voltage fluctuations could destabilise it. Kind of makes sense.

I have removed the overclock and in the process of checking if I now can use the same wall outlet for both pc and actuators.

 

[Fleskebacon]

Update: had nothing to do with the overclock, it crashed again pretty quickly when I plugged the actuators back in the same outlet as the pc.

 

[Neilski]

Wiring can deteriorate over time, with so-called "cold flow"
where heat cycles cause wires to expand and contract under screws in wall outlets
as well as at circuit breakers. There could be a loose and/or corroded wire connection
at the PC wall outlet, so that actuator current surges provoked voltage fluctuations to the PC.

Could be.
Depending on the physical layout of the wiring of the outlets, I'd guess that another possibility could be that the EMI when using the other outlet has a different impact because the wires (aka antennas) take a different path through the wall (maybe it's even a different wall?), causing a different amount of induced voltage in the affected system. (A bit like rotating a radio antenna to improve the signal.) This would mean that the EMI is causing trouble not by travelling around the mains circuit and then into the affected hardware (which would be blockable by ferrites on the mains cables, perhaps) but instead by travelling through the air. It could easily be a combination of both I guess. EMI is generally a PITA.