A little help needed regarding Buttkickers LFE large and amplifier

[Turtle Power]

First of all, this is a great place for finding information about sim racing gear. There is a a lot in this forum in regards to the Buttkickers, and I have a simple question.

I bought a Behringer NX6000D amp to run 2 x Buttkickers LFE's full size in simvibe extension mode. The question is what cables do I need and where should be connected.

In addition, this may not be relavant but it might be worth mentioning that already have configured 4 mini lfe's buttkickers chassis mode. The amp I am using for mini's is Emotiva BasX A500 and It works well.

As for the Behringer nx6000d, it uses different cables for inputs and outputs.

Your help is greatly appreciated.

Cheers

 

[Mr Latte]

Please tell me you at least have downloaded the amps software?
I think you had but don't rely on using the amps front display.

 

[Zolazem]

If you own RR, please try it and see if the effects are weak?

I have made a profile in Simhub for AMS 2 which I’m really satisfied with. (strong effects) When i use this same profile in RR the effects are weak and when im using this profile in Dirt Rally 2.0 the effects are almost absent.

 

[Turtle Power]

No I was referring to post 65

This

OK got it. Everything is explained so well. I just need to read it slowly and apply to my settings. It may take some time but I will return and share my new findings. Apologies, I am a complete noob.
Cheers

 

[Turtle Power]

Please tell me you at least have downloaded the amps software?
I think you had but don't rely on using the amps front display.

Yes I got the software installed. Also there is a new firmware not sure if the installation of new firmware is specific or just open and install? not important atm

 

[Mr Latte]

I have made a profile in Simhub for AMS 2 which I’m really satisfied with. (strong effects) When i use this same profile in RR the effects are weak and when im using this profile in Dirt Rally 2.0 the effects are almost absent.

I dont have any tactile up and running at present so I cant relate to other sims as also just used AC ACC for tactile effects tests thus far.

What would be good to understand is what sims output a stronger sensation with the same settings used in Simhub. I don't know what variation there is between the most used sims.

A table of the lowest-highest output would be handy.
This is why I recommend using 50-60% soundcard output to then alter it accordingly.

 

[Turtle Power]

I have made a profile in Simhub for AMS 2 which I’m really satisfied with. (strong effects) When i use this same profile in RR the effects are weak and when im using this profile in Dirt Rally 2.0 the effects are almost absent.

ok so it must be something that devs may need to work on.

 

[Mr Latte]

ok so it must be something that devs may need to work on.

Different sims may likely use different telemetry values that then generate different output levels.

This is the problem and why for any form of test scenario we need one devised using the same sim and settings for others to then use the recommended settings to perform tests to feel them as intended.

 

[Turtle Power]

Just before I shoot off for today, many thanks for your support. Tactile feedback is really something special and I am getting hooked more and more. It is fair to say that this is becoming very addictive and frustrating at the same time. I can not give you any better explanation on how I feel right now

 

[Mr Latte]

People trying to tune their rig using online tone generators is not valid for what the sims may be generating with settings used for effects in Simhub. The tone generators are just handy for getting a general feel of pure tones or different waveforms.

 

[Zolazem]

I dont have any tactile up and running at present so I cant relate to other sims as also just used AC ACC for tactile effects tests thus far.

What would be good to understand is what sims output a stronger sensation with the same settings used in Simhub. I don't know what variation there is between the most used sims.

A table of the lowest-highest output would be handy.
This is why I recommend using 50-60% soundcard output to then alter it accordingly.

In the beginning i was using 60% on soundcard and 1 o clock on amp (nx3000D) which i read in your post in a different thread.(thanks for all the help to get a start in tactile I later switched to 80% on soundcard and tweak the gains per effect in SimHub.
Is it better to go back to 60% on soundcard always?

What do you mean with the table of lowest highest outputs? You want this from me?

 

[Mr Latte]

In the beginning i was using 60% on soundcard and 1 o clock on amp (nx3000D) which i read in your post in a different thread.(thanks for all the help to get a start in tactile I later switched to 80% on soundcard and tweak the gains per effect in SimHub.
Is it better to go back to 60% on soundcard always?

What do you mean with the table of lowest highest outputs? You want this from me?

Hi,
Some effects may cause clipping with higher soundcard volumes, as an example in ACC with a standard Gearshift if the effect layer is at 100% I see clipping if the primary Simhub / Soundcard volume is beyond 80%.

Now its not a conclusive look at different effects as it may not be an issue with all effects.
It also as we are discussing may vary too with different sims. So the early guidance is to avoid hitting the limits. Also if a user is boosting specific Hz with DSP then altering the input level boosts all frequencies so any specific frequencies getting high boosts we don't want them going even higher.

For example, if a user was boosting below 20Hz with +10dB and the amp at 12pm with the soundcard at 60% then moving the amp knob to 2pm is quite a big difference as the amp will still also be boosting those 20Hz by +10dB. Therefore you have to take into account what boosts you may be applying to specific Hz via Crossover or Eq and what the combined input trim level is from the source.

Tip:
Keep an eye on the amps software (Input / Output) meters.
Perhaps useful to compare different sims too with same settings

If a user increases the Simhub output then that should affect all soundcards being used on Simhub
Yet a person may be using different soundcards (if more than one) and no question different cards have different output levels too.

Personally, I feel it's best to leave headroom and apply more gain on the amp but as you may not want the same gain applied to all channels or transducers. Just take into consideration soundcard/input trim level and dsp settings. We want to avoid overcooking the input source but at the same time not apply too much gain via the DSP for the amps output stage and what ultimately goes to the transducers.

If you have multiple sims installed then if you wouldn't mind please by all means do a report on your findings with effects as to what sims seem to have highest to lowest felt sensations. It might be better to do this in the main tactile discussion thread.

 

[Mr Latte]

Just before I shoot off for today, many thanks for your support. Tactile feedback is really something special and I am getting hooked more and more. It is fair to say that this is becoming very addictive and frustrating at the same time. I can not give you any better explanation on how I feel right now

Change of idea, see below...

 

[Mr Latte]

@Turtle Power
Okay, so this is a new easy test I have prepared for you to try.

It lets you determine what Hz you can feel up to via the RPM
It then also lets you determine what Hz you can feel down to via the RPM

You could compare how the LFE feels to the Mini LFE

For reference please use the following:

ACC Sim with Ferrari 488

Your NX6000D amp, apply a digital limiter set to 900w (to match 3000 series for this test)

1) Select DUAL mode
2) Set to 4 Ohms For LFE
3) Adjust dial to alter "W" value
4) Set to 900W value
5) Go to Setup tab and save this as a Profile in one of the amps slots




Set the amps front knob level to 1pm
No DSP active

Simhub Volume 60%
Effect Layer Volume 100%


Example:


If the loss of felt sensation kicks in before you reach max RPM
Then you know you have found the frequency range that is within the transducer's limits.

Download the below file, rename it by removing
.txt

and replace it with
.siprofile




Next place it into your Simhub folder and with the Profile Manager in Simhub
Import into Simhub to test.



Any problems with this or activating outputs for your soundcard for effects to be felt then let me know.

RPM TEST PROFILE
Revised 1B Version
(Includes some additional layers)


As a custom effect this is currently only active on "Front Left"
So within the effects output mixer, select "Front Left" for any of the channels you want this to be active on.

 

[Mr Latte]

Things Are Not Always As They Appear
Even with this test it will not be fully accurate as to what some might expect.

I can see the Hz over the RPM from idle to Max so we can do another test that is accurate but such requires specific settings applied and used with a specific car.

I am highlighting this as lots of people assume that the values they enter into the Base/High settings for effects is what they will feel. This is not always the case nor takes into account additional harmonics that audio generates.

As an example with RPM, different types of cars have various idle RPM values so this alters the Hz from what is set.
So even if for example, we have 30Hz-60Hz set as an RPM range.

The car is not at 0 RPM during idle which is what the (Base) set value is starting from.
Depending on the car it could have idle at 900 RPM or over 3000 RPM which then would alter what Hz is actually being generated from idle.

With the Ferrari 488 in out test here this means that the cars engine idle RPM with a setting of 30Hz is closer to 40Hz.

In the sim using the up close dash view.
If someone uses a setting and discovers they can only feel with that layer part of the way over the RPM (eg 5000 RPM) then I can verify what Hz is being generated to the RPM they feel to and with whatever layer they are using.

All you have to do is discover what layer and what RPM you can feel to with both tests.
Doing this with LFE and Mini lfe

 

[Turtle Power]

@Turtle Power
Okay, so this is a new easy test I have prepared for you to try.

It lets you determine what Hz you can feel up to via the RPM
It then also lets you determine what Hz you can feel down to via the RPM

You could compare how the LFE feels to the Mini LFE

For reference please use the following:

ACC Sim with Ferrari 488

Your NX6000D amp, apply a digital limiter set to 900w (to match 3000 series for this test)

1) Select DUAL mode
2) Set to 4 Ohms For LFE
3) Adjust dial to alter "W" value
4) Set to 900W value
5) Go to Setup tab and save this as a Profile in one of the amps slots




Set the amps front knob level to 1pm
No DSP active

Simhub Volume 60%
Effect Layer Volume 100%


Example:


If the loss of felt sensation kicks in before you reach max RPM
Then you know you have found the frequency range that is within the transducer's limits.

Download the below file, rename it by removing
.txt

and replace it with
.siprofile




Next place it into your Simhub folder and with the Profile Manager in Simhub
Import into Simhub to test.



Any problems with this or activating outputs for your soundcard for effects to be felt then let me know.

RPM TEST PROFILE
Revised 1B Version
(Includes some additional layers)


As a custom effect this is currently only active on "Front Left"
So within the effects output mixer, select "Front Left" for any of the channels you want this to be active on.

Once I get back to my sim rig I will get this done.

Quick question:

Is NX6000D capable of matching NX3000D via pick limiter. I am talking about true and the exactly the same match and not something that is similar or close to? True match.

Cheers

 

[Mr Latte]

Once I get back to my sim rig I will get this done.

Quick question:

Is NX6000D capable of matching NX3000D via pick limiter. I am talking about true and the exactly the same match and not something that is similar or close to? True match.

Cheers

Hi, yeah this will make things a lot easier than the last tests shared in the BK Gamer thread.

The listed specs of the NX3000D are 900w so it should help match what it outputs.
Cannot be certain but we can ask NX3000D owners to also contribute.

The point in doing this is to see if findings you have with tests also align with owners of the same transducers testing the same effects with NX3000D and this approach. I can only request people give these a try and they help.

I also still want to learn how @anton_Chez finds the BK Mini compares with the Earthquake Mni. These two new simple tests should not take that much time to do.

Considering the help given on these forums I don't think I'm asking that much.

 

[FireWithin]

I dont have any tactile up and running at present so I cant relate to other sims as also just used AC ACC for tactile effects tests thus far.

What would be good to understand is what sims output a stronger sensation with the same settings used in Simhub. I don't know what variation there is between the most used sims.

A table of the lowest-highest output would be handy.
This is why I recommend using 50-60% soundcard output to then alter it accordingly.

Absolutely.
Personally I found that my Pcars2 setting have translated at 95% same strength and feel to AC. I want to test in a need future Dirt Rally, AMS2 and ACC.

PS. Since I started using Simhub (beginning of this year) beside gear shift (being my absolute pref effect) my 2nd favorite effect is RPM . To feel the approach of the redline is essential to me now BUT id like to assign Simhub "mute" to a keyboard key but it seems buggy to do so, anyone successful with that? The problem is when I'm in betw races or in the garage RPM & engine vibes stay active and sometimes I would like to shut it up with a quick touch.

Cheers!

 

[EsxPaul]

id like to assign Simhub "mute" to a keyboard key

It's been months since I've used the program so I'm going on memory...

I'm not sure if you can assign a key to mute but I do know you can assign keyboard keys or a rotary encoder for master volume up/volume down.

 

[Mr Latte]

Absolutely.
Personally I found that my Pcars2 setting have translated at 95% same strength and feel to AC. I want to test in a need future Dirt Rally, AMS2 and ACC.

PS. Since I started using Simhub (beginning of this year) beside gear shift (being my absolute pref effect) my 2nd favorite effect is RPM . To feel the approach of the redline is essential to me now BUT id like to assign Simhub "mute" to a keyboard key but it seems buggy to do so, anyone successful with that? The problem is when I'm in betw races or in the garage RPM & engine vibes stay active and sometimes I would like to shut it up with a quick touch.

Cheers!

Easily possible with additional hardware.
I have 3x HA 6000 units for sale, that I no longer need because of getting the digital mixer.
With it, if you want to increase/lower or mute a channel, you turn the knob down. You want more bass, you turn a different knob. 6 Channels separately controlled within arms reach, yeah pretty handy.

 

[Zolazem]

BUT id like to assign Simhub "mute" to a keyboard key but it seems buggy to do so, anyone successful with that?

I assigned a button to my wheel to mute SimHub. I use it when watching the replays and dont have any problems with it.