2019 Formula One Canadian Grand Prix

[ears]

Guys what exactly happened to lando? i mean i saw his right rear on fire but it was just because of that little curb surfing?

They don't think he even surfed the curb. Couldn't be explained. The team apologised to Lando on the radio so have to assume it was a mechanical error.

 

[snyperal]

Guys what exactly happened to lando? i mean i saw his right rear on fire but it was just because of that little curb surfing?

They thought his brakes cooked his suspension. He was being massively out braked by verstappen. I guess they never cooled down. It looked like he'd put it in the wall but it just melted.

 

[Denis Betty]

Actually I agree with Jolyon Palmer on this. You do block. Because that's your only chance of winning. That's just a competitive human trait.

I agree he has to grow up and take it on the chin though - the penalty that is.

The old 'hot head' Seb was back today.

It was great entertainment though. One way or another, F1 got its show.

We'll never agree on that. The penalty should be great enough to discourage cheating. If it's not, then it isn't fit for purpose. It's a human trait to bully weak people in order to get your own way (for some people), but society does not tolerate that behaviour, so penalties are set accordingly. Lastly, are you sure that you think it's acceptable to cheat, in order to win? I find that abhorrent. Every man has his price I guess.

 

[tr1v1um]

Blocking like that is cheating. If you make a mistake, grow up and take it on the chin. Give the place up and go about starting to try and win it back fairly.
This is a very rare victory for fair play, although I actually feel cheats should be punished (and be seen to be punished) way more harshly than than they ever are.

Give the place up ... are we watching hard wheel to wheel racing or several-time-world-champions, who are supposed to be the best of the best ... giving up?

Next to the fact that post #64 exactly shows why F1 is pretty senseless to watch. Everything is dictated by rules which are bend in flexible ways to favor one or another driver. I've never seen Hamilton getting a penalty for forcing other drivers off the track or blocking, or driving in eratic ways. Give MotoGP or Indycar a go and you know why people are pissed.

 

[callumjtc]

And instead Seb binned it and rejoined in a manner that forced another drive to take avoiding action.

Seb made a mistake, he left the track. He sacrificed track position. He no longer had a right to the racing line and when rejoining, as Hamilton said in the podium room, you're not supposed to head straight back to the racing line.

And Seb's excuse? Couldn't help it, what was I supposed to do?

Lift, Seb. Might have been a bit easier to control the car had you not had the loud pedal flat.

Are you okay? He was trying to keep the car out of the wall, and if he didn't there would have been a serious crash. I'm guessing you must be one of the stewards, great job at killing the show :/

 

[Loren Thomas]

I am so ****ing angry. Vettel clearly had no chance to do anything else, he didnt go so wide on purpose. You can even see that he doesnt look in the mirror, how is he supposed to go wide on purpose??? Its a stupid call from the Stewards, Hamilton didnt even loose time by Vettel mistake. And it was Vettels first aggressive move in the whole season, why does he get such a penalty? The FIA is ruining the sport like that.....

He had a chance to stay on the track to begin with, and he didn't. It's his fault for going off the track and putting himself in that situation in the first place. Once he does go off, he's got to respect the rules about rejoining safely. And he certainly didn't do everything in his power to do that either, if he had, his brakes would have been locked.

 

[callumjtc]

I cannot comprehend the arguement for a penalty in this case, Vettel wasn't in control of the car hitting the grass at racing speed, he did a fine job keeping it out of the wall and if he didn't Hamilton would have gone flying into him. Very sad day as one of the most exciting races all season was tainted by such an awful penalty call.

 

[Matheus Machado]

his brakes would have been locked.

then he would have crashed because of bigger braking distance and going straight. Unless you think the most effective way to stop a car is locking brakes.

 

[Denis Betty]

We'll never agree on that. The penalty should be great enough to discourage cheating. If it's not, then it isn't fit for purpose. It's a human trait to bully weak people in order to get your own way (for some people), but society does not tolerate that behaviour, so penalties are set accordingly. Lastly, are you sure that you think it's acceptable to cheat, in order to win? I find that abhorrent. Every man has his price I guess.

Guess I'm from another age. He made a mistake which ended in Hamilton being disadvantaged (almost took him out). He was rejoining the track. Not giving up the place is cheating. End of.

 

[callumjtc]

He had a chance to stay on the track to begin with, and he didn't. It's his fault for going off the track and putting himself in that situation in the first place. Once he does go off, he's got to respect the rules about rejoining safely. And he certainly didn't do everything in his power to do that either, if he had, his brakes would have been locked.

He would have hit Hamilton had he locked the brakes, gone sailing straight into the side of him with even less control than he had

 

[BrainsBush]

@wajdl that incident looks almost identical. There should have been a penalty there too.

I don't know if anyone else was listening to the BBC 5live commentary but Jolyon Palmer, who it turns out is an excellent commentator said he'd have done exactly what Seb would have done. Anyone would.

But he would expect an investigation too.

This was also a 5 sec penalty. May be they used this as 'reference' material for this Vettel mistake and thus also gave Seb the same 5 secs?

 

[callumjtc]

Guess I'm from another age. He made a mistake which ended in Hamilton being disadvantaged (almost took him out). He was rejoining the track. Not giving up the place is cheating. End of.

Hamilton was far enough back to lift off, for all he knew Vettel was going to block his line by hitting the barrier. Obviously Hamilton is not at fault, but drivers are not even allowed to outbrake themselves anymore? I think next penalties for going too fast should be brought in. How about penalties for leaving the track in the first place?

 

[Michel Bélisle]

And instead Seb binned it and rejoined in a manner that forced another drive to take avoiding action.

Seb made a mistake, he left the track. He sacrificed track position. He no longer had a right to the racing line and when rejoining, as Hamilton said in the podium room, you're not supposed to head straight back to the racing line.

And Seb's excuse? Couldn't help it, what was I supposed to do?

Lift, Seb. Might have been a bit easier to control the car had you not had the loud pedal flat.

I do not really understand the Vettel was blocking argument. I see him slow down on slick tyres with sticky grass on the surface of the tyres making them very slippery, in an attempt to not hit the wall.

I genuinely believe that Vettel did everything he could to regain control of the car. Hamilton was behind him the whole time and he never had an opportunity to overtake him at any point.

 

[Jan Larsen]

They thought his brakes cooked his suspension. He was being massively out braked by verstappen. I guess they never cooled down. It looked like he'd put it in the wall but it just melted.

Looked like the RR brake completely nuked itself causing the upright to melt and break.

 

[ears]

This was also a 5 sec penalty. May be they used this as 'reference' material for this Vettel mistake and thus also gave Seb the same 5 secs?

I don't think it was, dude. Wouldn't have mattered, but don't think it was.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/36408471

"The incident was investigated by the stewards but no further action was taken"

 

[Denis Betty]

Hamilton was far enough back to lift off, for all he knew Vettel was going to block his line by hitting the barrier. Obviously Hamilton is not at fault, but drivers are not even allowed to outbrake themselves anymore? I think next penalties for going too fast should be brought in. How about penalties for leaving the track in the first place?

Why should he lift? Vettel was rejoining and came back on the racing line. It's up to Vettel to rejoin safely and without making another driver lift. If he's not able to do that, he should lift and acknowledge his mistake. He decided against this - which is cheating.

 

[ears]

I do not really understand the Vettel was blocking argument. I see him slow down on slick tyres with sticky grass on the surface of the tyres making them very slippery, in an attempt to not hit the wall.

I genuinely believe that Vettel did everything he could to regain control of the car. Hamilton was behind him the whole time and he never had an opportunity to overtake him at any point.

But it looked like he was accelerating flat out in an attempt to maintain position. So was he doing everything he could to regain control of the car?

The rules clearly state that you're not allowed to join in a manner that forces another driver off the track, which he did.

So when the stewards analysed the data, maybe if they thought Seb was accelerating too hard and, had he lifted a bit to control the car could have stayed on the inside instead of obstructing the racing line - which he no longer had a right to - then the penalty was necessary.

 

[callumjtc]

Why should he lift? Vettel was rejoining and came back on the racing line. It's up to Vettel to rejoin safely and without making another driver lift. If he's not able to do that, he should lift and acknowledge his mistake. He decided against this - which is cheating.

Ah yes, sees driver ahead out of control, does not attempt to deviate from line where they may or may not end up and stays flat out. Seems good to me

 

[Denis Betty]

Ah yes, sees driver ahead out of control, does not attempt to deviate from line where they may or may not end up and stays flat out. Seems good to me

There was a 2nd deviation in line from Vettel. I'm guessing he saw that pretty late? Neither of us were in the car. In any case, Vettel should not be disadvantage another driver whilst rejoining the track. It's not complicated.

 

[ears]

Ah yes, sees driver ahead out of control, does not attempt to deviate from line where they may or may not end up and stays flat out. Seems good to me

But that's irrelevant, because Hamilton did brake. Because he had to. To avoid a collision.

It looks to me like Vettel didn't brake. And as he was rejoining having made a mistake, it was his responsibility to ensure that no collision occurred.