2019 Formula One Austrian Grand Prix

Slowdive · Jun 30, 2019

ZuneGuy said:
...

I know it's rather pointless to argue with a Hamilton fan, but what I said is true. He has the fastest car. Add to that Mercedes coddle him as the number one driver and if Bottas ever seriously threatened him, he would not be allowed to win. Also, if Hamilton is so dominant, how was Nico able to beat him? I mean, Lewis is the greatest of all time. Am I right?

To be honest I'm not at all invested and could care less who wins F1. I just thought your original comments were ironically funny.

callumjtc · Jun 30, 2019

farjam said:
Blaming FIA again? these grid penalties rules were reviewed countless time these years and all of the teams had their say in it too! if you can't understand just watch
this
or
this
Norris was 6th, Lewis was 2nd, with 3 grid drop Lewis will start in front of Norris no matter what! simple math! and now he is still starting in front of norris! but both of them promoted 1 place as there was empty slot because of Kmag(sequence of penalties are important on when a slot will be emptied, slots will be emptied after enforcing penalties by their sequence, and they will complete the grid after all the penalties enforced one by one)! it seems your problem is those empty slots, it's the same in any form of motorsport that filled the gap, no penalty was reduced! they there was one empty slot (4th place) as magnussen had 5 grid drop, lewis was p5 with his penalty, norris was p6, and they just fill that empty slot like any other kind of Motorsport these days.
you want to talk about fairness? lewis still will start in front of norris and at the back of bottas as it should be with 3 place grid drop! then lewis, norris,and other people had to fill the empty slot as kMag made that empty slot! the only way around about enforcing this penalty is to shape the grid like this :
1.leclerd
2.max
3.bottas
4.empty slot
5.hamilton
6.norris
or
1.leclerc
2.empty slot
3.max
4.bottas
5.hamilton
6.norris
but we can't have empty slots! this is the best rule of 99% of the situations. all other methods have tested so far and everytime there were big complains as in all of them there will be some unfairness , but this method had actually none so far, from the fans yeah but the teams have bigger share to loose or gain in this sport than some of their fans who complains, if the teams can protest they will 100%(like some of other rules like moving under braking that was changed more than twice), when the teams don't oppose, it will remain.

it happened before(with other methods and different consequences) but there was no FIA bias talk, give us your proposed grid order(top 7) and i will tell you why it's wrong or not fair.

Mate I know the rules and I understand why they HAD to award the penalties like that. You obviously didn't understand my post fully, I was complaining about the rule existing in the first place, and how there can be a situation where a grid penalty is reduced by virtue of how it was applied. Sure at the back of the grid there is only so much that can happen, but when at the top end a 3 place penalty means a 2 place penalty? That doesn't make sense.

farjam · Jun 30, 2019

callumjtc said:
Mate I know the rules and I understand why they HAD to award the penalties like that. You obviously didn't understand my post fully, I was complaining about the rule existing in the first place, and how there can be a situation where a grid penalty is reduced by virtue of how it was applied. Sure at the back of the grid there is only so much that can happen, but when at the top end a 3 place penalty means a 2 place penalty? That doesn't make sense.

first of all, penalty didn't reduced, because lewis filled one empty slot it looks like he had only 2 place! also i have to say if lewis went at the back of norris, some say why his 3 drop turn to 4 grid drop? as again it looks like initially lewis went to P6 and then turn to P5 after filling the empty slot, so why!
he had 3 place drop, kMag has 5, it isn't weird that one driver whose penalty is less can get advantage from someone with a larger penalty.

You can see the part of the cause for this rule here in my previous post:
https://www.racedepartment.com/thre...ustrian-grand-prix.170211/page-4#post-2998896
you can read that post or i will copy some of the related parts here :
the problem with this rule is "emptying the slots of penalized drivers and filling the empty slots with the next drivers are done separated,you have to empty the slots one by one for all penalized drivers and then bunch the grid up to fill the empty slots, you can't empty magnussen's slot and push norris to fill it and then going for emptying lewis slot! pushing drivers to fill the empty slots will be done after emptying all the needed slots"
why they are separated?

*emptying slots because of penalties will be determine by the penalty sequence(who get it first or seconds and so), but bunching them up will be after emptying all the slots needed, you can't empty a slot, fill it and go empty the next slot and fill it like what you showed, we had something like this and it was opposed with teams, why? as sometimes there will be post qualy penalties (like puting new PU just before the race) if the procedures of emptying the slots and the procedures of bunching the the drivers to the emtpy slots is not separated they can't enforced those penalties that happens before the race correctly and that will compromise more drivers. if a penalty happen just before the race, you can easily cancel the previous bunch up procedure and start enforcing those penalties based on the first procedure to emptying the slots.

*this particular rule is not sent to us from the sky or from the dreams of FIA personnel, it is the final result of using different methods and letting teams have their say about it, with every method the teams were opposing it until we reach to this rule as still no team opposed to that method. the teams think about themselves more than us fans, if they think there is 1% problem with that they will oppose even on the rule that they have agreed on before.
i'm not saying the rule is good or perfect, but at least it's something that teams have their say and agreed on it, also it's the least compromising one, there could be another method that can work in this isolated situation for sure, but can have huge compromises and consequences in other circumstances! and because there have to be one universal rule you can't have no compromises.
this rule enforced at the last season too, but because in no cases mercedes was involved and only some midfield or backmarkers affected no one noticed that much, maybe a little doubt but forgotten fast. like moving under braking, no one were noticing it how bad it was until max did it to ferrari and mercedes.
god damn it by writing this i forgot motogp race is starting , off to watch motogp right now

cheers

Atticvs · Jun 30, 2019

I think the votes show the fans' disbelief in F1 right now: even though he's starting way back in P4, Hamilton is still favoured by more than anyone else to win this race.

Completely agree, by the way, voted the same way, I think Leclerc, Ferrari and Bottas are perfectly capable of messing up every chance they get, possibly taking Verstappen out in the process as well.

sparkmastertape · Jun 30, 2019

Atticvs said:
snip

To be fair, most of the votes came before quali.

ZuneGuy · Jun 30, 2019

Slowdive said:
I know it's rather pointless to argue with a Hamilton fan, but what I said is true. He has the fastest car. Add to that Mercedes coddle him as the number one driver and if Bottas ever seriously threatened him, he would not be allowed to win. Also, if Hamilton is so dominant, how was Nico able to beat him? I mean, Lewis is the greatest of all time. Am I right?

To be honest I'm not at all invested and could care less who wins F1. I just thought your original comments were ironically funny.

Rosberg was not able to beat Lewis... without a little help from the team from which he was departing.

The one and only season with Mercedes that Lewis has ever had continued reliability issues all season long was 2016. It never happened before 2016, and it hasn't happened since 2016.. Rosberg was there right from the beginning right along with Schumacher. So Mercedes wasn't going to let the guy leave without a parting gift. Lewis even stated during the season that it felt as though someone didn't want him to win, a good driver knows, and he was right.

Rosberg was always aware that he could not beat Lewis in a fair race, even if Lewis drove blindfolded. Lewis nearly won an F1 championship as a rookie, He equaled a two-time world champion in Alonso in every way his first season as his teammate, and he's the only driver who's been able to push a four-time world champion to the brink of madness and insanity, so much so that he is also considering retirement, just like the ex-teammate that we are discussing now.

Even with the one very interesting season where Lewis suffered engine after engine failure and reliability issues, he was still able to stay within five points of Rosberg by season's end, that is real determination under those circumstances. And let's not forget every record that he currently holds, records that other drivers in the same car as teammates could not equal or even come close to achieving, and they were given every opportunity to do so but fell short. You can coddle an athlete all that you want, but that won't will them to greatness - only the athlete can produce that.

So yes, oh yes you care very much or you wouldn't have been so compelled to comment in the first place.

Appie Kuipers · Jun 30, 2019

MAX MAX MAX MAX

UNREALARCLIGHT · Jun 30, 2019

This end gonna be good.

UNREALARCLIGHT · Jun 30, 2019

Now THIS is Racing

Koen Verlinde · Jun 30, 2019

So I heard F1 is boring these days...

UNREALARCLIGHT · Jun 30, 2019

Thank you Max verstappen

Faith in Sport partaily restored.

farjam · Jun 30, 2019

Max was the only one who made it not boring, or it could be exactly like last race lol
strategy gamble by mercedes, they could have get the fastest lap, it was obvious vet gonna get him on soft while lewis was on 37-38 laps old hard...