Verstappen 100
Gasly 37
Damn.
Gasly 37
Damn.
2019 Formula One Austrian Grand Prix
- Thread starter Paul Jeffrey
- Start date
Just re-checked the provisional grid, apparently a 3 place penalty is a 2 place penalty? FIA back at it again, simple maths eludes them. How can you write a rulebook that allows a situation when in the top 10 when only 2 drivers have minor penalties a situation whereby on penalty is reduced? They need to fix the allocation of penalties for next season, back to how it was...
I'm confused, their article says Hamilton went from p2 to p4, but then later in the article says Norris will start p4.....
https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/...kkonen-in-austria.4jatTCaO1TrlV19mYNKWWi.html
https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/...kkonen-in-austria.4jatTCaO1TrlV19mYNKWWi.html
It's good to see a true champion like Lewis get knocked down by a penalty and still show the heart to take it like a man, unlike the whining, petulant tantrum throwing child that is Sebastian Vettel.
Hamilton needs to quit doing this crap though, does he think that he owns the track or something.
Hamilton needs to quit doing this crap though, does he think that he owns the track or something.
He's leading the championship uncontested by a country mile, do you think he gives a damn looking at the wider picture? Vettel is massively under pressure so there is a big difference
was Kimi telling Lewis that he was 'number one' with that gesture ? 
Blaming FIA again? these grid penalties rules were reviewed countless time these years and all of the teams had their say in it too! if you can't understand just watch
this
or
this
Norris was 6th, Lewis was 2nd, with 3 grid drop Lewis will start in front of Norris no matter what! simple math! and now he is still starting in front of norris! but both of them promoted 1 place as there was empty slot because of Kmag(sequence of penalties are important on when a slot will be emptied, slots will be emptied after enforcing penalties by their sequence, and they will complete the grid after all the penalties enforced one by one)! it seems your problem is those empty slots, it's the same in any form of motorsport that filled the gap, no penalty was reduced! they there was one empty slot (4th place) as magnussen had 5 grid drop, lewis was p5 with his penalty, norris was p6, and they just fill that empty slot like any other kind of Motorsport these days.
you want to talk about fairness? lewis still will start in front of norris and at the back of bottas as it should be with 3 place grid drop! then lewis, norris,and other people had to fill the empty slot as kMag made that empty slot! the only way around about enforcing this penalty is to shape the grid like this :
1.leclerd
2.max
3.bottas
4.empty slot
5.hamilton
6.norris
or
1.leclerc
2.empty slot
3.max
4.bottas
5.hamilton
6.norris
but we can't have empty slots! this is the best rule of 99% of the situations. all other methods have tested so far and everytime there were big complains as in all of them there will be some unfairness , but this method had actually none so far, from the fans yeah but the teams have bigger share to loose or gain in this sport than some of their fans who complains, if the teams can protest they will 100%(like some of other rules like moving under braking that was changed more than twice), when the teams don't oppose, it will remain.
it happened before(with other methods and different consequences) but there was no FIA bias talk, give us your proposed grid order(top 7) and i will tell you why it's wrong or not fair.
Last edited:
That's funny because when I think of petulant tantrum throwing driver, I think of Hamilton. Could you imagine his attitude if he didn't have the fastest car out there? Good lord.
start at the back of the field. Assess penalties to the lowest placed driver and move the drivers he was placed behind up one spot each. keep repeating til you reach the front of the field. This way there are no empty spots, no invisible drivers and a 3 spot penalty is truly a 3 spot penalty.
I'm clearly talking visual actual tantrums, like using an F1 race as a weapon against another on-track driver, or getting out of your race car in anger after the race as a podium finisher and not going to the designated area where every driver who finishes on the podium is supposed to go, and on top of that moving the place markers when it didn't change the outcome of the race at all. The whole situation showed us is that Lewis alone makes him crack under the pressure everytime, and what a baby Vettel can be as a result.
I mean when Vettel finally finally loses it, those around him had better run for cover.
Now as for your little comment about the car, need I remind you that Lewis has had 5 teammates in his Formula One career, all of whom have had the same car, same equipment, and the same opportunities to do something great and amazing with it. Unfortunately for them none of them could do what he has done, nor could any handle the pressure that he administers to them, and since this is the plain truth, your hypothetical question is devoid of any real meaning at all. You see Lewis was never the only driver to have driven any of those cars.
What it boils down to is the fact that Lewis has done more with a winning car than anyone else who has ever had a winning car in their career, and that is one of the things that makes Lewis such a great driver.
Last edited:
It should obviously be;
1 vettel
2 empty slot
3 empty slot
22 empty slot
That should take some pressure off him
Sasha Jednak
Sasa Jednak
Can I try, I thought I knew how this worked and I got completely lost with this.
Let’s start with q results: lec-ham-ver-bot-mag-nor
Penalties: mag 5 places for changing gearbox (before q), ham 3 places (in q2).
How I thought it works is: first penalty done and all in places
Lec-ham-ver-bot-nor
While they do it like
Lec-ham-ver-bot- -nor
Then second penalty:
Lec-ver-bot-nor-ham
vs
Lec- -ver-bot-ham-nor
I really don’t see why is my view unfair? Because Noris gets 2 free positions? Of course he gets them, the others are supposed to lose them because of their own mistakes. That should be the point of every penalty. And when did they start with these “empty places”?
You forgot that K-Mag got 5 grid penalty.
Wasn't it Kubica who qualified 20th and already had a 5 place grid penalty and starts 17th today. Nobody talks about that 20+5=25. 25-3+1-4+2.5-5.5+1=17
Enjoy the race this afternoon (CET)! Fireworks guaranteed - well hopefully
20+5=25. 25-3+1-4+2.5-5.5+1=17Enjoy the race this afternoon (CET)! Fireworks guaranteed - well hopefully
Can I try, I thought I knew how this worked and I got completely lost with this.
Let’s start with q results: lec-ham-ver-bot-mag-nor
Penalties: mag 5 places for changing gearbox (before q), ham 3 places (in q2).
How I thought it works is: first penalty done and all in places
Lec-ham-ver-bot-nor
While they do it like
Lec-ham-ver-bot- -nor
Then second penalty:
Lec-ver-bot-nor-ham
vs
Lec- -ver-bot-ham-nor
I really don’t see why is my view unfair? Because Noris gets 2 free positions? Of course he gets them, the others are supposed to lose them because of their own mistakes. That should be the point of every penalty. And when did they start with these “empty places”?
One of the thing that this method is off is:
1. you see norris geting 2 place while it has to be only one place (because hamilton P2 with 3 grid have to be in front of norris no matter what)is fair! yes you have to loose places when you have penalties but lewis didn't suppose to lose place to norris , his 3 grid drop won't be enough to get norris one place! norris can only gain because of magnussen penalty as it was sufficient number of drops to give norris an extra place. the only way to get norris in front of lewis is to get lewis 4 grid drop, but lewis had only 3 drop! the problem is you want norris to gain advantage because 5 grid drop of Magnussen but you don't want lewis gain advantage from magnussen grid drop and you want his final grid to be like he had 4 grid drop! both of them have penalties but lewis penalty was less and also was after magnussen penalty.
2. emptying slots because of penalties will be determine by the penalty sequence(who get it first or seconds and so), but bunching them up will be after emptying all the slots needed, you can't empty a slot, fill it and go empty the next slot and fill it like what you showed, we had something like this and it was opposed with teams, why? as sometimes there will be post qualy penalties (like puting new PU just before the race) if the procedures of emptying the slots and the procedures of bunching the the drivers to the emtpy slots is not separated they can't enforced those penalties that happens before the race correctly and that will compromise more drivers. if a penalty happen just before the race, you can easily cancel the previous bunch up procedure and start enforcing those penalties based on the first procedure to emptying the slots.
in this case we had in Austria, magnussen penalty was because of starting the Q with new gearbox, it's the first in the sequence , and lewis one was the second(if we isolate other penalties like saiz and russel and... ):
provisional was:
1.leclerc
2.hamilton
3.verstappen
4.bottas
5.Magnussen
6.Norris
*magnussen P5 slot emptied first (by his penalty sequence) and he
went to 5 off
1.leclerc
2.hamilton
3.verstappen
4.bottas
5.empty
6.Norris
11. Magnussen
you can't now force norris to fill the empty P5 slot ,other penalties have to be applied before bunching them up!
*then lewis P2 slot emptied, and he goes to P5
1. leclerc
2. empty
3. verstappen
4. bottas
5.Hamilton
6. Norris
10. Magnussen
after emptying all the slots who has the penalties, like sainz and others they will bunch the the grid up to fill the empty slots!
with this method no one actually benefited, teams have way more bigger share in this sport than us fans, if they feel there was something wrong they would oppose, like in the previous occasions that led to this method. i'm not saying this method is perfect but it is the final one that we have as the result of team protests and suggestions. from our view it can be wrong! but for teams that are the real competitors(not us) it's their choice.
like the tyre issue, pireli or FIA didn't force the teams to have this thinner ones! they suggested before spanish GP 2018 , all the teams agreed to it, also at the end of last season all the teams agreed about thinner tyre (ferrari and redbull were among them, i think it was only renault was in the opposition), but when they got those tyre in this season they are telling us we want those 2018 spec ones and their fans saying pirelly did this change to give Merc advantage, yeah an advantage sign by merc rivals, ferrari and redbull lol (at that time renault was against it so ferrari+redbull+sauber+Hass+ renault+torro roso could prevent the tyre change, but now renault is in the other side and they can't have the majority), even they still saying pirelli did what we asked lol
you see? they will oppose and order a voting even if they are the ones who sign the agreement! if they see this penalty and grid positioning 1% wrong they will do something.
Last edited:
