2010 Formula One German Grand Prix

[ufunacaoenn]

Look if teams want to give Teams order do it cleanly, how ever I won't support it because I want to see a Formula 1 race with just action like on the old day's were the Radio was not known in the world of F1.

Just so no one gets the wrong idea about me, I have allways standed for "I rather fight my way up the grid then gaining posisions because people got off track".

 

[Xosé Estrada]

Look if teams want to give Teams order do it cleanly, how ever I won't support it because I want to see a Formula 1 race with just action like on the old day's were the Radio was not known in the world of F1.

Just so no one gets the wrong idea about me, I have allways standed for "I rather fight my way up the grid then gaining posisions because people got off track".

I fully understand what you mean Giorgios, and it's very idealistic about how F1 should be, I think we all want that.

What I'm just trying to say is that this scandal comes from "too evident team orders" and not because there were team orders, because there are team orders every weekend, but "hidden" into radio messages talking about other things.

I don't mind if FIA penalize Ferrari as long as they do something to prevent hidden team orders in the future.

Cya!.

 

[ufunacaoenn]

They could ban sentence that doesn't make sense at all or doesn't have enything to do with the corrent race.

 

[Harald Stadler]

I cannot understand this debate about team order at all. Team orders where part of the game in the past, they are now and they will in future. And I really do not understand why this is a problem. Even if you don't like it, accept it. Because it is not controllable (ok, in case Ferrari does it, it is :wink. If the team is a bit smarter than Ferrari, there is no way to stop it. And it is no matter if they do it per radio, pit board or aggreement prior to the race, it will always be there.

In my opinion, they should remove this silly rule from the regularitions and allow it. Then the teams do not need to try hiding the order. The rumors around such a try are more damaging and unsportsmanlike than if everyone knows what's going on. In the old ages, there where some not understandable things going on, suddenly the one teammate overtook the other and that was called racing... THAT was cheating on the fans because they haven't been told most times! Now, it can be made transparent to all. Everyone does it, so why hide it at all costs? It is part of the team strategies. So allow it! Tell it to the fans like this time! If teams do not have to crypt it (or incompetently try it), it WILL be accepted! Why? Because it is transparent to every one, that it's part of the game. There is no need to like it (as usual, it's a matter of taste). But it will be way better than today.

What we have now is the real crap! We have a silly rule (it was implemeted after a very stupid action of Ferrari which indeed was cheating on the fans down in 2001 I think in Austria) and again it was Ferrari which was too stupid and did it too obvious. But for me, the fault was not that they did it all. Their fault was, that they did it with this rule in mind. There is a rule and, so stupid it is, it must be followed. Following the rules is also part of the game, breaking a rule, even a silly one, is not sportsmanlike.

Remove this rule and, like in the old days, it will regulate itself! If you remember (when you're old enough :wink, there where team mates which were on good terms and some which where on bad terms. The ones which were good will do it maybe even without order. The others won't do it at all, like...hmmm...Prost and Senna. Let the team and the teammate decide the way they handle this and not stupid rules! Isn't it what we really want? Debating about racing situations, attitudes of teammembers, team decisions and so on! And not about such a crap like this, debating if and how a team has broken another stupid rule which nobody needs...

But for now, fining Ferrari for breaking the rule with $100.000 is...not enough. Even that I for one accept team order, I do not accept breaking rules. I would them have to loose the points for the team championship, too. But not the drivers points. They are just subordinates.

And I also have to say: How Ferrari and the drivers argumented after the race - it's typical Ferrari... ^^

 

[Billy Davies]

It's effectively fixing the result of the race.

I blame Briatore.. he visited Ferrari last week.

Dirty Cheat.

 

[Bram Hengeveld]

^Yeah that^

 

[Ross Balfour]

There's an old saying "To finish first, first you have to be a whining little ****"

 

[ufunacaoenn]

Are you sure because it sounds like you made it up.

 

[Ross Balfour]

Are you sure because it sounds like you made it up.

lol, I changed the original old saying thats " To finish first, first you have to finish "

 

[David Garcia]

It is time now to let Epsilon Euskadi join F1 finally, they can give any order they want in vasque and nobody will understand waht the **** are they talking about... or even better, sign a Sioux or Arapahoe track engineer and let him use is native lenguaje.

Seriously now, FIA rules are idiot ones, and as much they pretend to have everything under control as much they control nothing... FIA rules sucks as I said before, but they are easy to be broken and there where 3000000000000000 diferent ways to make Massa give the position without getting a penalty, Ferrari is a band and not a profesional team and theye should stop being the attention center weekend after weekend... Domenichalli is doing an amateur´s work, if not worse and he should watch some Todt/Brawn videos.

I hope Epsilon Euskadi joins next year!

 

[ufunacaoenn]

Some times you dont, if all just crash during the race and the only drive is in P1 and his engine blows up but is over the 75% mark then he will still win.

How ever I dont want to see drivers that don't earn it to be on P1. IMHO I think Alonso lacks Racing spirit.

 

[Ryan Callan]

I don't approve of it - but in the same situation I would have done the same thing - and so would have you all. It was also the right decision, if they didn't do it and went on to lose the title by less than 7 points......

I'm also really not sure why Alonso is getting most of the ire - yes he whined a little in the middle of the race like a lot of drivers do, even the much-loved Webber - but it was 'Ferrari' which issued the orders - little too much Alonso hating I'm afraid - people just love it when an excuse comes along to hate on their 'anti-favourite'. Despite his flaws Alonso is still the most complete driver on the grid.

 

[Eric Estes]

^^ What he said ^^

 

[Adam Vaughan]

I don't approve of it - but in the same situation I would have done the same thing - and so would have you all. It was also the right decision, if they didn't do it and went on to lose the title by less than 7 points......

I'm also really not sure why Alonso is getting most of the ire - yes he whined a little in the middle of the race like a lot of drivers do, even the much-loved Webber - but it was 'Ferrari' which issued the orders - little too much Alonso hating I'm afraid - people just love it when an excuse comes along to hate on their 'anti-favourite'. Despite his flaws Alonso is still the most complete driver on the grid.

Why are you all saying this, what do all us fans moan about in F1, the passing and fighting yet you all say I would of done the same. This sport is not for Ferrari not for that italian **** face Stefano its for the fans. £100,000 fine is bread and butter, why didnt they take the result off them and punish them for the fans sake. Its wrong and I really couldnt give a damn about what I you he she would of done its wrong and more than anything its BORING!!!!!!

Also im not calling for alonsos head but he wanted those orders, and if you want a position dont go over the radio and moan like a little fairy, you fight for that position. All you guys are losing the whole point. Its disgusting and the likes of stefano and also david coulthard get on my nerves.

Eddie jordan ftw.

 

[Adam Vaughan]

I cannot understand this debate about team order at all. Team orders where part of the game in the past, they are now and they will in future. And I really do not understand why this is a problem. Even if you don't like it, accept it. Because it is not controllable (ok, in case Ferrari does it, it is :wink. If the team is a bit smarter than Ferrari, there is no way to stop it. And it is no matter if they do it per radio, pit board or aggreement prior to the race, it will always be there.

In my opinion, they should remove this silly rule from the regularitions and allow it. Then the teams do not need to try hiding the order. The rumors around such a try are more damaging and unsportsmanlike than if everyone knows what's going on. In the old ages, there where some not understandable things going on, suddenly the one teammate overtook the other and that was called racing... THAT was cheating on the fans because they haven't been told most times! Now, it can be made transparent to all. Everyone does it, so why hide it at all costs? It is part of the team strategies. So allow it! Tell it to the fans like this time! If teams do not have to crypt it (or incompetently try it), it WILL be accepted! Why? Because it is transparent to every one, that it's part of the game. There is no need to like it (as usual, it's a matter of taste). But it will be way better than today.

What we have now is the real crap! We have a silly rule (it was implemeted after a very stupid action of Ferrari which indeed was cheating on the fans down in 2001 I think in Austria) and again it was Ferrari which was too stupid and did it too obvious. But for me, the fault was not that they did it all. Their fault was, that they did it with this rule in mind. There is a rule and, so stupid it is, it must be followed. Following the rules is also part of the game, breaking a rule, even a silly one, is not sportsmanlike.

Remove this rule and, like in the old days, it will regulate itself! If you remember (when you're old enough :wink, there where team mates which were on good terms and some which where on bad terms. The ones which were good will do it maybe even without order. The others won't do it at all, like...hmmm...Prost and Senna. Let the team and the teammate decide the way they handle this and not stupid rules! Isn't it what we really want? Debating about racing situations, attitudes of teammembers, team decisions and so on! And not about such a crap like this, debating if and how a team has broken another stupid rule which nobody needs...

But for now, fining Ferrari for breaking the rule with $100.000 is...not enough. Even that I for one accept team order, I do not accept breaking rules. I would them have to loose the points for the team championship, too. But not the drivers points. They are just subordinates.

And I also have to say: How Ferrari and the drivers argumented after the race - it's typical Ferrari... ^^

Yeh lets make it even more boring, rules like that are brought in for fans.

 

[Ryan Callan]

At the end of the day Ferrari want to win the title - it's a selfish world and EVERYONE would have done the same - probably a with a little more subtlety and balls, but still, we would have done the same.

Everyone knows it is virtually impossible to pass in F1 unless you are at least a second faster or have a straight-line advantage, especially your team-mate.

Alonso didn't whine to get the lead (he whined over the radio once - he did not ask to be given the lead from what we heard - people put so much stock in that, yet even that is filtered by the media, we don't hear 1% of what goes on in communications, the media just takes out the tasty bits and manipulates it for us - if he had asked to be given the lead I'm sure the media would have definitely given us that) - he in fact showed (whether you like it or not) superior speed by using common sense, saving his tyres while Massa took the grip out of his own, and closed a 3.4 second gap down to .8 of a second in 4/5 laps. The Ferrari took the decision to let him past.

Team orders have been, and always will be, part of motorsport, it is one of the benefits of running a team rather than one car.

I'm not saying team orders are right morally or sportingly - but jeez - this is not a perfect world - and it was the correct decision to make for themselves - which is what they race for after all - not for you or Joe Bloggs - they race for themselves.

And can we all stop acting like wounded, spoiled Americans (apologies to nice Americans )? OMG there's no overtaking, OMG a team swapped it's two drivers around, OMG it's a disgrace, ban them. Yes, we pay to watch F1, but if you don't like it no-one forces you to. Everyone just likes a moan - if Massa had won the talk would have been about well done to Massa for winning on his 'anniversary' but behind that would have been the moaning about the F1 'procession'. Be thankful something interesting happened.

 

[Ryan Callan]

Adam - edit your post - do NOT call other forum members names please.

 

[Adam Vaughan]

At the end of the day Ferrari want to win the title - it's a selfish world and EVERYONE would have done the same - probably a with a little more subtlety and balls, but still, we would have done the same.

Everyone knows it is virtually impossible to pass in F1 unless you are at least a second faster or have a straight-line advantage, especially your team-mate.

Alonso didn't whine to get the lead (he whined over the radio once - he did not ask to be given the lead from what we heard - people put so much stock in that, yet even that is filtered by the media, we don't hear 1% of what goes on in communications, the media just takes out the tasty bits and manipulates it for us - if he had asked to be given the lead I'm sure the media would have definitely given us that) - he in fact showed (whether you like it or not) superior speed by using common sense, saving his tyres while Massa took the grip out of his own, and closed a 3.4 second gap down to .8 of a second in 4/5 laps. The Ferrari took the decision to let him past.

Team orders have been, and always will be, part of motorsport, it is one of the benefits of running a team rather than one car.

I'm not saying team orders are right morally or sportingly - but jeez - this is not a perfect world - and it was the correct decision to make for themselves - which is what they race for after all - not for you or Joe Bloggs - they race for themselves.

And can we all stop acting like wounded, spoiled Americans (apologies to nice Americans )? OMG there's no overtaking, OMG a team swapped it's two drivers around, OMG it's a disgrace, ban them. Yes, we pay to watch F1, but if you don't like it no-one forces you to. Everyone just likes a moan - if Massa had won the talk would have been about well done to Massa for winning on his 'anniversary' but behind that would have been the moaning about the F1 'procession'. Be thankful something interesting happened.

The purpose of fernando moaning was because he expected and wanted felipe to give him the place. Felipe wasnt blocking or defending he harshly. Like you I think fernando is one of the best drivers on that grid by far but that little whine and moan was for that purpose. i will not have it any other way. the media havnt manipulated me and that transmission was way b4 the pass. My first thoughts and will always be he was moanin like a little fairy because he couldnt get past. The more you guys accept it or defend it then expect your f1 races to be boring.

 

[David Garcia]

I am reading a lot of cinycal comments here guys... don´t you all like WTCC? This is the bigger example I can remember on current motorsports of team ordering. If you don´t want team orders on F1 then put an entry list of 26 single car teams. TEAM word is the key, and so team work can be expected why are you all that suprised about that things happening?

In my point of view, at the half of the seasson with the championshuip on the air and with a big need of recovering points I would even blame Massa for being that selfish and not giving the position to a clearly faster team mate. What he wanted? Risking P1 and P2 forcing Alonso to overtake him in a dangerous manouver? Keeping on that pace and let Vettel approach both Ferrari´s? Cmon, team orders were clearly needed yesterday, and if you were the team owner you would have done the same, but in a smartest way possibly.

 

[Warren Dawes]

If you don´t want team orders on F1 then put an entry list of 26 single car teams.

Yep. I'm afraid that is the bottom line, each Team has invested too much money in F1 to risk anything. We all know Team orders will feature as the season progresses, and each Team sees which driver has the best chance.
I'll wager everything I own that we will see more Team orders determining results for the rest of the season, maybe just not as obvious. And it will come from all three of the contending Teams, RBR and McLaren just haven't a clear indication yet re which of their drivers is best placed.