2010 Formula One German Grand Prix
- Thread starter James Johnson
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In Senna and Gilles times team orders were allowed, so you are talking nonsense
And I'm very proud of Fernando to be honest, he did a brilliant drive, was the faster driver all weekend, and yes, his team played in his favour.
It really remembersme Schumi, plenty of internet bull**** calling the Kaiser (best ever) cheater this and that and cheering for some "myths" that had 3 brilliant races in their life, saying he crashed other car on propose but saying Sena was clean when he did the same, etc...
Cya!.
Dear Xosé, in the time of Gilles Villeneuve there werent team orders like you see today.
I am totally agree with what you say about Schumacher dough, but what i said about Alonso, i dont take one word back.
Yes he can drive and he still may win 10 wc's, he wil not come to near villeneuve's or senna's knees about beiing a great racer and person, he is just as hypocryt as schumi was with Ferrari, and that is a fact.
And i am not only refering to the 80's where you just were born m8, check out the 70's aswell.
No offence.
Xosé Estrada
Premium
I hope this not leads to a DQ for Ferrari, for Massa's future.
This is only a personal oppinion, but F1 teams don't let any space for "luck" or improvisation, I'm sure they talked about this possible situation before the race and I think in this case they stablished one of this two:
A) Massa has to let Fernando, with much better WC possibilities, to pass.
B) If one of the two cars is faster car has priority.
Probably the second, so for Massa (like for some people here) that wasn't too clear and he decided to fight position, and the team got mad with him so talked to him very harsh.
If now Ferrary gets a DQ, internally, all the blame will go directly to Felipe and that can compromise his future in Ferrari, thing that I don't want, I think he deserves a second try on WC after 2008.
Cya.
This is only a personal oppinion, but F1 teams don't let any space for "luck" or improvisation, I'm sure they talked about this possible situation before the race and I think in this case they stablished one of this two:
A) Massa has to let Fernando, with much better WC possibilities, to pass.
B) If one of the two cars is faster car has priority.
Probably the second, so for Massa (like for some people here) that wasn't too clear and he decided to fight position, and the team got mad with him so talked to him very harsh.
If now Ferrary gets a DQ, internally, all the blame will go directly to Felipe and that can compromise his future in Ferrari, thing that I don't want, I think he deserves a second try on WC after 2008.
Cya.
Xosé Estrada
Premium
Team orders were legal, and there were team orders all the time, in every GP, just the media covering was not as good as is today.
Just read some F1 history and you will find a lot of situations where the teams played 1st car and 2nd car.
Well, I never meet Villenueve in person, so I don't know how he is. I need more than then press conferences and races to know how a person is.
What I can say for sure Villenueve is that popular today because he died young, and because his battle with Arnoux, very popular in youtube. As raw as that, there were many drivers way better than Villenueve in this time and much more elegant with a car, like Jenson Button for instance, and he won a WC.
You might think Villenueve could, or that is not that difficult, but in fact that's the most difficult thing in the sport, because is not have a good day, or two, is be the most regular a whole season, driving against the best.
By the way, you can accuse Alonso to be a bastard, egoistic, whatever, but not really hypocritic when he's exactly the opposite, he says what he thinks and doesn't think in consequences at all.
Cya!.
Xosé, it doesnt have to be that if your car is slower you cant win a GP, in your opinion you need to let pass your team m8 then?????
Go back in the years, and yes it was in Spain were Gilles Ferrari was not competitive at all, but because of his driving skills he managed to keep everybody behind him and win the GP of Jarama with 1.3 sec difference to a whole bunch of F1's behind him.
And Alonso, he wasn't honnest today, i heard very wel his resume of the race, comon Xosé. I am not Anti Spanisch m8, in contrary, but racers like him loos respect from my point of vieuw
And Villeneuve Xosé: the reason why they still speak as a legend about him is simple, he was the fastest and with the biggest B...s driving F1 driver in history who gave us spectators the times of our lives and it was a festivity to see every GP in that days. He was always pushing the limits (thats why he died so young). He was a most genuine person with the heart en tong on the right place and i will always be gratefull that i could see this man alive in action.
That was Gilles Xosé
R.I.P Gilles.
But Xose if you look at this in the other hand, who was it that said that this was Rediculas; well I think that Ferrari did this because they know that Alonso is a type of person who easely gets angry and can realy well expres anger but I think if Alonso just cept quiet and tryed to find an oppertunity like all the other drivers have done over the years he would be able to pass Massa like eny other drivers.
Now about this WC, Alonso is no near the front runners to be a threat so why even care about the WC if Alonso cant do enything special. I would Rather go like Mclaren and say "Alonso we need to save fuel" wich now ments that he doesn't need to pass MAssa and same goes for massa.
Now lets look on the Mclaren at Instambul and the WC, once Red Bull is out and Mclaren had there battle. I didn't see eny order that said to hamilton to let Button pass because if I am not wrong, Button was leading over Hamilton on the WC so what Mclaren did was to go safe since there was no threat. IMO Ferrari should have done exaclue the same thing.
I've not long got in from work and watched the recording I had. As an F1 fan, a fan of competitive fair sport (yes I know its hard to find) I'm really disappointed. I'm a Ferrari fan but it makes no difference to me, its not what want to see. With that said I wonder what sport some of the posters here are watching if they don't think team orders are rife through the sport, Ferrari are just poor in camouflaging it. McLaren, Red Bull, Renault, in fact name any team over the last 30 years and you'll find team orders, no.1 drivers, rule breaking the full caveat. Of course some like to post the same old anti Ferrari vitriol, and sadly sometimes this has more to do with nationality than anything else.
As for quoting the rule book, go ahead and quote all day but Ferrari did not say "move aside now Massa we want Alonso to win". Now we all know what it sounded like but the FIA have to prove Ferrari were giving their driver a clear instruction to move over and rig the result. Its their word against Ferrari and although it seems clear to everyone what was said its Ferrari's word against the FIA unless Massa comes forward and gives further evidence against his employers.
This is a big test for the FIA now, as chief Jean Todt is in for a tough week. If he doesn't take action against Ferrari the media will slaughter him because of his past ties to Ferrari but realistically its his word against Ferrari's and team orders are rife in the sport so does he punish Ferrari without evidence? Lap times will also back any claim Ferrari make that Alonso passed him fairly so what does he do? he's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't.
As for quoting the rule book, go ahead and quote all day but Ferrari did not say "move aside now Massa we want Alonso to win". Now we all know what it sounded like but the FIA have to prove Ferrari were giving their driver a clear instruction to move over and rig the result. Its their word against Ferrari and although it seems clear to everyone what was said its Ferrari's word against the FIA unless Massa comes forward and gives further evidence against his employers.
This is a big test for the FIA now, as chief Jean Todt is in for a tough week. If he doesn't take action against Ferrari the media will slaughter him because of his past ties to Ferrari but realistically its his word against Ferrari's and team orders are rife in the sport so does he punish Ferrari without evidence? Lap times will also back any claim Ferrari make that Alonso passed him fairly so what does he do? he's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't.
James Johnson
The Weatherman
"Fernando asked in the press conference if this win ranks up there with his victory at Singapore in 2008. Ouch. The hacks are having a moody."
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This was just totaly stupid by Ferrari. Alonso would have caught up with Massa and passed him in a few laps anyway. Why mess up and do something like this??!!?? It's STUPID!!
I have been a Ferrari fan as long as i can remember, though this year only liked one part of the team since I for some reason hate Alonso. Anyway from this day I will no longer hope for Ferrari to do well, just Felipe Massa, who deserved to win today...
I have been a Ferrari fan as long as i can remember, though this year only liked one part of the team since I for some reason hate Alonso. Anyway from this day I will no longer hope for Ferrari to do well, just Felipe Massa, who deserved to win today...
A Pathetic, Disgraceful decision\order from Ferrari which once again has brought F1 into Disrepute.
It's called Motor "RACING", if Alonso was faster he should have "RACED" and overtaken Massa, Ferrari should be DQ'd.
It's called Motor "RACING", if Alonso was faster he should have "RACED" and overtaken Massa, Ferrari should be DQ'd.
Thats just further example of why I believe RedBull have no class. They can jump and shout about this race all they like but it was RedBull under the spotlight for shady team decisions just a race ago. He who is without sin cast the first stone, I think they should be keeping their heads down and be thankful they are out from under the spotlight.
James Johnson
The Weatherman
You havnt even seen the latest twit they posted?
"Ferrari summoned by the beak. Expect lots of shrugs and “It wasn’t us, don’t know what you’re talking about, guv’nor…”"
Yes I did actually when I was checking to see if it was RedBull's official Twitter and as I followed the link from their official web-site I saw the update which just reinforce's what I said, they have zero class.
I think we have done enough giving opinions about this so we should let FIA take the final desision now.
Lets talk about the Toro Rosso crash and the order Webber got.
Lets talk about the Toro Rosso crash and the order Webber got.
Or Vettel's start pushing Alonso to the wall, or a lot of drivers going wide in the first corner gaining advantage (like Massa for example).
James Johnson
The Weatherman
NobleF1
"Ferrari has been fined $100,000 and referred to the World Motor Sport Council for team orders and bringing sport into disrepute"
http://twitter.com/noblef1
"Ferrari has been fined $100,000 and referred to the World Motor Sport Council for team orders and bringing sport into disrepute"
http://twitter.com/noblef1
Xosé Estrada
Premium
Well, there will never be a talk about that because, as you probably noticed, the point here is to blame alonso even about the 11S.
Vettel pushed Alonso into the wall at the start, many drivers (like Massa and Button) cut the track, Kovalainen destroyed De La Rosa race when blue flagging in a silly move, but nothing happens.
I'm sure, if this was the opposite, all the Alonso haters would be saying now that Alonso is a bastard that didn't wanted to help his team mate fighting for the WC to win, that he was fighting for position when his teammate needed the points untill the team, feed up with him, had to tell him to let Massa pass, and a long etc.
Same history every GP
James Johnson
The Weatherman
Adam Cooper's F1 Blog.
Xosé Estrada
Premium
Really clever analysis Kevin.
Is evident for us that it was a team order, but:
"Felipe, Alonso is faster than you, do you understand the message?"
is really that different than:
"If I save fuel, will Button attack me?" - "No Lewis"
And this happened in Turkey, but (because some will say I'm attacking McLaren) this happens every single race in every team.
$100,000 fine? Well, Santander boss was already there to pay it, so is crying baby could win the Santander German GP! It’s all question of money.
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