Community Letter: A Few Changes On The Front Page

BazzaLB · 2024-10-30T21:35:19+0000

Welcome and good luck in your new role.

henkjansmits · 2024-10-30T21:49:06+0000

Standing still is not "moving backswards" its "moving forwards" in a world where every site becomes more ad filled by the minute. This one being a prime example (at least on mobile...).

Trebor901 · 2024-10-30T22:12:44+0000

henkjansmits said:
Standing still is not "moving backswards" its "moving forwards" in a world where every site becomes more ad filled by the minute. This one being a prime example (at least on mobile...).

The ads on mobile are a joke. I agree. Ive even spoken to boss man about it and its got worse not better. All they can ever say is "No ads on premium". The site layout even on pc is awful and just seems jumbled. Adding more sliders and things into that isnt going to improve anything. Just makes it look more amatuer like lets push as many different pieces of content as we can because its not getting enough clicks.

Christopher E · 2024-10-30T22:40:39+0000

Trebor901 said:
The site layout even on pc is awful and just seems jumbled.

That's something we want to work on, like anything that's been around a while things get changed and evolve and at some point need a rethink. I get what you're saying about ads, no one really likes them, but what is the issue with premium exactly?

Rene / GRunner · 2024-10-30T23:11:30+0000

Hey there,
First of all, thanks for your feedback @henkjansmits and hi again @Trebor901
Indeed we talked about the ads on mobile (and I appreciate your feedback and the share info about it).

I was using the page on mobile a while now (without being logged in, so that I can see the ads etc.) and in my layout, the front page only has a video window top left (which can be closed with an X and I also don´t get it on every visit) and an Ad at the bottom of the screen. Besides that, when being in this article for example, there is an Ad between a segment and one at the end of the text before Info box (drop ins basically).

Would be great if you could confirm if you see a similar layout (just to be on the same page for a discussion, as this may vary by region) as we looked into it after I had the chat with you @Trebor901.

With that new layout, I didn´t have any issues (performance wise or pure usage of screen). Of course I can understand that no one likes Ads (me neither) but we also have to finance the space for all the cool mods the community uploads, the editors writing content etc. just like any other side out there. We want to keep all of that available for everyone, so we need the support of the community to make that happen.

And yes, another option would be to go premium (which, besides a few other goodies, lets the Ads disappear for the user), and with 1 Euro per month, that should be very reasonable. I can understand that this might not be the answer you are looking for, but as said prior, we do our best to keep all of this accessable to everyone and to avoid paywalls (which is why there is the option with ads or the option to support with premium rather than seeing the ads).

Regarding the layout (I assume your comment meant it is too clustered for you then?) I am more than happy to listen to feedback which elements you like and which you don´t and keep improving on that.

I can assure you the change has nothing to do with clicks (as when you see this front page, you are already on the page, we do not go by single metrics on elements. Even if Connors newest mod article would only get 5 clicks, as long as there are people appreciating it and he is enjoying it, we go for it), but instead with bringing elements to the forefront that otherwise are a bit hidden on our page (which is why we want to bring the best mods to the frontpage as well). Enabling visitors to find what they are looking for more easily.
Mods for example are obviously our most clicked items (especially via google) but them not being represented on the front page feels kinda wrong, since that is what many people want to check out. Before that we basically just had a long list of all news items and, if you are an avid reader of them, you checked them out anyway when they were further up that list, so why not enable visitors to also see what is new in the guide section etc.?

That was the thinking behind it, hopefully I was able to bring a bit of insight into it.
As always, happy to discuss, I know that experiences can vary depending on own preferences of homepage structures etc.

Cheers,
Rene

Trebor901 · 2024-10-31T00:12:22+0000

Rene / GRunner said:
Hey there,
First of all, thanks for your feedback @henkjansmits and hi again @Trebor901
Indeed we talked about the ads on mobile (and I appreciate your feedback and the share info about it).

I was using the page on mobile a while now (without being logged in, so that I can see the ads etc.) and in my layout, the front page only has a video window top left (which can be closed with an X and I also don´t get it on every visit) and an Ad at the bottom of the screen. Besides that, when being in this article for example, there is an Ad between a segment and one at the end of the text before Info box (drop ins basically).

Would be great if you could confirm if you see a similar layout (just to be on the same page for a discussion, as this may vary by region) as we looked into it after I had the chat with you @Trebor901.

With that new layout, I didn´t have any issues (performance wise or pure usage of screen). Of course I can understand that no one likes Ads (me neither) but we also have to finance the space for all the cool mods the community uploads, the editors writing content etc. just like any other side out there. We want to keep all of that available for everyone, so we need the support of the community to make that happen.

And yes, another option would be to go premium (which, besides a few other goodies, lets the Ads disappear for the user), and with 1 Euro per month, that should be very reasonable. I can understand that this might not be the answer you are looking for, but as said prior, we do our best to keep all of this accessable to everyone and to avoid paywalls (which is why there is the option with ads or the option to support with premium rather than seeing the ads).

Regarding the layout (I assume your comment meant it is too clustered for you then?) I am more than happy to listen to feedback which elements you like and which you don´t and keep improving on that.

I can assure you the change has nothing to do with clicks (as when you see this front page, you are already on the page, we do not go by single metrics on elements. Even if Connors newest mod article would only get 5 clicks, as long as there are people appreciating it and he is enjoying it, we go for it), but instead with bringing elements to the forefront that otherwise are a bit hidden on our page (which is why we want to bring the best mods to the frontpage as well). Enabling visitors to find what they are looking for more easily.
Mods for example are obviously our most clicked items (especially via google) but them not being represented on the front page feels kinda wrong, since that is what many people want to check out. Before that we basically just had a long list of all news items and, if you are an avid reader of them, you checked them out anyway when they were further up that list, so why not enable visitors to also see what is new in the guide section etc.?

That was the thinking behind it, hopefully I was able to bring a bit of insight into it.
As always, happy to discuss, I know that experiences can vary depending on own preferences of homepage structures etc.

Cheers,
Rene

On mobile I get the one at the top and the bottom as you said but every 2 or 3 pages that video then extends to almost full screen.

In the sense of being cluttered maybe that wasn't the right way to phrase it. But on mobile at least if I scroll down the home page I've got 3 articles, then an article sized gap where it looks like the site or software is thinking there should be an ad. Then on the pc it looks fine. Personally I don't like the "Latest Comments" part. Maybe I'm picky but I think it looks a lot smarter with the article headlines and pictures and none of the extra stuff down the side.

Interestingly while typing this I've been switching between tabs on my phone and noticed that viewing the site in desktop mode on a mobile browser means the ads are a lot less intrusive across the screen.

Trebor901 · 2024-10-31T00:14:30+0000

Christopher E said:
That's something we want to work on, like anything that's been around a while things get changed and evolve and at some point need a rethink. I get what you're saying about ads, no one really likes them, but what is the issue with premium exactly?

There is no issues with premium at all. If people can afford to pay that extra a month then that's fine (i understand in the scheme of things its not expensive but some people have bigger priorities). Maybe my comment came across rude which wasn't the intention.

Pete Conway · 2024-10-31T00:36:45+0000

Trebor901 said:
There is no issues with premium at all. If people can afford to pay that extra a month then that's fine (i understand in the scheme of things its not expensive but some people have bigger priorities). Maybe my comment came across rude which wasn't the intention.

It's not just those that cannot afford to pay, it's also those that don't bank online, or paypal, or money transfer*... I personally don't do any of those, and won't start, and the only reason I was Premium earlier was through the generosity of another member... and I thank him again for that, it was a selfless act of kindness that shows altruism within these very forums.

* I also don't have anything to do with google or any of it's subsidery/satallite companies (youtube etc)
Nor do I 'any' social media platform... I must lead a very sad life I hear you think

Trebor901 · 2024-10-31T01:06:49+0000

Pete Conway said:
It's not just those that cannot afford to pay, it's also those that don't bank online, or paypal, or money transfer*... I personally don't do any of those, and won't start, and the only reason I was Premium earlier was through the generosity of another member... and I thank him again for that, it was a selfless act of kindness that shows altruism within these very forums.

* I also don't have anything to do with google or any of it's subsidery/satallite companies (youtube etc)
Nor do I 'any' social media platform... I must lead a very sad life I hear you think

No you live a better life than most if that's the case, social media breeds all the issues of people feeling no self worth today. But that's for another time/forum.

Johnny Speed · 2024-10-31T01:13:51+0000

Welcome, and please don't make any drastic changes. I speak for myself and I hate change. Comfortable and reliable is what is needed in this ever changing world. The one thing that matters the most...keep it simple. Please.

henkjansmits · 2024-10-31T05:47:31+0000

So since people asked to be more specific re ads on mobile:

Ad at top and bottom, top is some annoying video thing with amazingly small x button, and some sound autoplay while you are on the site (i.e. you cant listen to spotify). I thought we had agreed to stop this sound autoplay around 2005 on the internet...

If you click add on bottom away it comes back if you scroll. Also the x button does nothing.

Mobile site slows down to crawl sometimes when typing in post field.

There was some redesign while this was still RD a year ago which made forums also much worse, e.g. removing the page 1,2,.. buttons before the posts and putting bunch of useless stuff at bottom so you cant easily find the last post by scrolling. No big relation to ads here just a "make it worse" redesign.

Basically this is one of the worst designed sites now, i only come because the forum is nowhere else and the articles are alright

. Alas we can only move forward in time.

TheRealCeeBee · 2024-10-31T06:25:02+0000

super clean with some ad blockers,just zap away the noise.

Rene / GRunner · 2024-10-31T08:14:10+0000

Have to admit, I don´t know about the changes to the forum in mobile version @henkjansmits as we haven´t been around back then. Could have been an update of the actual software? If you could describe what you miss in the mobile experience there in a DM, I will schedule a check on our side to see what we can actually adjust in the forum-view for mobile. Could be something that can be improved

Also the slowing down in reply field, we will have a look at that!

As said before, I totally understand that no one likes ads but I really hope that we can also reach an understanding that it is neccessary to cover the costs. And while I can also see how convenient the "solution" is that @TheRealCeeBee shows here, I hope you understand how damaging that is. A bit like going into a restaurant, enjoying that meal and then telling others "if you just get up and leave, you don´t have to pay"

Also Nr.1 reason world wide as to why ads get more aggressive (which I also don´t like, I can live with them but I am not interested in them getting more intrusive) is exactly the above: more Adblockers. Until the day where so many people use it that the site we check regularly for our hobbies or news or whatever will just all vanish.

Server costs, writers that deserve to be able to put a meal on the table for their work etc. all of that is not doable if everyone would just "go around" the ads or premium. Just letting the ads display isn´t costing you anything (because I totally get when someone says premium is just too much for them personally or they don´t do any payment methods that work there). We host tons of GB of mods and contineously work hard to cover all the news (which actually never fits in a "normal" 9-5 work scheme haha) and we are dedicated to keep doing that (and more) for the community.

Christopher E · 2024-10-31T08:15:49+0000

Trebor901 said:
There is no issues with premium at all. If people can afford to pay that extra a month then that's fine (i understand in the scheme of things its not expensive but some people have bigger priorities). Maybe my comment came across rude which wasn't the intention.

Not rude at all wasn't taken that way, happy to have a discussion

Just really trying to find out if there are blockers for premium.
Right now in the team all we talk about is what would be valuable for the community, so feedback is essential.
Thanks!

RiseAndDespair · 2024-10-31T08:30:42+0000

henkjansmits said:
e.g. removing the page 1,2,.. buttons before the posts and putting bunch of useless stuff at bottom so you cant easily find the last post by scrolling.

This right here is my biggest gripe with this website

Botmeister · 2024-10-31T08:34:24+0000

"Those who implement ads to websites are the ones who understand the importance of ad blockers."

~Sun Tzu (The Art Of War)

Rene / GRunner · 2024-10-31T08:40:15+0000

RiseAndDespair said:
This right here is my biggest gripe with this website

Already on the list now, we will try to see if we can find a history of those changes so that we can get a feel for what was done why. And then improve it.

So I guess number 1 thing is "i want to change pages in this discussion at the top of the screen"? To ensure that you can go where you want to be in the discussion?

Wreckoning · 2024-10-31T09:10:09+0000

At the end of the day something has to fund the site, it’s either ads or premium. For me I’m happy to do the premium thing but if I didn’t I wouldn’t (and previously didn’t) run an ad blocker. If no one pays for premium and everyone runs an ad blocker we wouldn’t have a site to go to anymore.

I think the key for any site thats ad funded is to not have the ads take away from the readability of its content but still ad value to the advertisers.

Christopher E · 2024-10-31T09:59:55+0000

Johnny Speed said:
Welcome, and please don't make any drastic changes. I speak for myself and I hate change. Comfortable and reliable is what is needed in this ever changing world. The one thing that matters the most...keep it simple. Please.

Thanks for chiming in. I totally relate, we want to make some small incremental changes to improve some aspects and as we said everything will be with open feedback.

Community Letter: A Few Changes On The Front Page

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