Pre-2017 LMP2: Surprisingly Missing in Sim Racing

Fuji2016.jpg
Image: Alpine on Newspress UK
Modern sportscars are great to have in sim racing. But there is a class and era that deserves more attention both from the community and developers. What is your favourite pre-2017 LMP2 car?

LMP2, Hypercar, GTE and GT3. Sportscar racing is becoming one of the most popular forms of motorsport around the world, and that growth is reflected in sim racing.

Seemingly every week, we hear stories of the latest GT3 model joining various simulators or a title getting first dibs at a brand-new Hypercar. Meanwhile, take a look at player numbers online and, omitting the popularity of entry-level single seaters, every server fit to burst with participation features at least one of the four aforementioned categories.

AMS2 represents many sportscar eras.

AMS2 represents many sportscar eras. Image: Reiza Studios

But zoom out from the modern sportscar fixation of recent times and you may notice that even classic content is far from lacking. A plethora of Assetto Corsa mods provide the best of 1960's sportscars whilst Automobilista 2's Group C and GT1 content is brilliant at shining the spotlight on the 1980s and 1990s.

There is one era however, or one particular class that is, that perhaps is not quite getting its five minutes of fame. Current LMP2 is a fantastic class with the formulaic ruleset and hot competition. But prior to 2017, the amateur-based prototype category was a different animal that deserves its moment in the spotlight.

Post-2017 LMP2 - A Set Formula​

Today, the LMP2 class is pretty much a single-make category with the exception of a single outlier Stateside in the form of Sean Creech Motorsport running a Ligier JSP217 up against a pack of Oreca 07's.

Ligier JSP217.jpg

The Ligier JSP217 was a popular LMP2 car in its inception. Image: Dunlop on Lulop

But this narrow scope is nothing new. Ever since the current ruleset began in 2017, just four manufacturers were homologated to build models for the class. That is in fact the same quartet now licensed to put together LMDh chassis for the Hypercar/GTP class; Oreca, Ligier, Dallara and Riley-Multimatic.

Back when the modern day LMP2 era launched, teams had the choice of purchasing a car from either of those four with the Oreca 07 and Ligier JSP217 picking up most of the pieces. Dallara's P217 was a semi-popular model for the first few years whilst the Riley-Multimatic Mk30 saw but a handful of outings.

2019 Le Mans LMP2 field.jpg

Even in 2018, LMP2 did not have variety. Image: Alpine on NewspressUK

Not only was the new class rather shut off to newcomers, it also featured far tighter regulations. Gone were the open top models of the past, making for far more similarly styled racers. In addition, the rulemakers' desire for greater parity between the models made for limited design opportunities and a single engine, the now famous Gibson V8.

Pre-2017 LMP2 - What An Era​

By contrast, the second highest class on the prototype ladder just a few years prior was a mish-mash of differing looks, fantastic sounds and a great variety of shapes thanks to a very open ruleset. From the very serious, closed top Ligier JSP2 to the open top Morgan and Zytek Z11SN - cars were vastly different.

LMP2 before 2017 was full of variety.

Take your pick for your favourite LMP2 car shape. Image: Honda Racing on Newspress UK

In total, 18 different chassis were homologated in-class between 2011 and 2016 when the class finally packed up, all of which were eligible for competition until that very last race. That being said, no one would have recommended strapping into an original HPD ARX-01 up against the likes of the all-conquering Ligier.

The new regulations brought into place in 2011 were all about cutting costs from the previous models known for being able to run in either LMP2 or LMP1 specification. The Porsche RS Spyder was one of the first to do so, instigating a development war amongst more serious manufacturers.

The result was a category that even the most unknown of manufacturers like BR Engineering could put together a chassis for, fit it with one of the many engines available from the likes of Judd, Nissan, Honda, BMW or Mazda, and get to work.

Nissan engine in LMP2.jpg

The Nissan engine ruled LMP2 pre-2017. Image: Nissan on Newspress

But the wide scope of chassis and engine options never harmed competitiveness within the class. Sure, the Ligier and Oreca options were the go-to whilst Nissan was by far the winningest engine manufacturer, but even the likes of a Mazda-powered Lola had a shot at race wins, especially Stateside.

2011-2016 LMP2 in Sim Racing​

Despite being such an interesting time in sportscar racing's history, this specific period in the LMP2 class' lifetime is lacking representation in sim racing. Spend enough time scrolling your favourite search engine and you may find the odd Assetto Corsa mod, or if you fancy a real throwback, some GTR2 mod packs. But rarely will you spot a prominent passion project featuring the cars.

Most frequently when you do spot a recreation of the era, it will be the infamously fast Ligier JSP2 or Alpine-branded open-top Oreca 03. But the truly fascinating models from the time are the oddball creations like the Strakka Racing designs or Morgan's foray into the category. Seldom will you be able to drive these rarer models in sim racing, let alone with accurate and satisfying physics and sounds.

Strakka Racing at Le Mans in an LMP2

Strakka Racing was one of many teams to create its own LMP2 car. Image: Strakka Racing on NewspressUK

How to integrate LMP2 in sim racing​

Ultimately, capturing the category's essence will be crucial to accurately integrating it into a game. This would require highlighting the shear number of engine and chassis combinations available across the class' existence.

Automobilista 2 does this fantastically with its 1990's CART - sorry, Formula USA - models and various F1 recreations. With LMP2's rather generic looks, the Brazilian studio could fare well in showcasing the period's spirit without the faff of going through licencing deals with each chassis manufacturer from the time.

Now Is The Time​

In the real world, the LMP2 class is in a rather static situation at the moment. The Oreca 07 is very much the go-to for competitive teams and thanks to its ease of use, the current ruleset has been extended for operation until the end of 2027. Yes, the new class that was meant to provide a base for the LMDh cars released last year will now not hit the track until 2028 - just one year before those LMDh models' homologations come to an end.

The Oreca 07 will remain the go-to LMP2 car for another few years yet.

The Oreca 07 will remain the go-to LMP2 car for another few years yet. Image: Dunlop on Lulop

With the formula working well from a competition standpoint in the likes of ELMS and IMSA, racing games are rushing to integrate the current standard that is the Oreca 07. Le Mans Ultimate has it and Automobilista 2 is looking set to get it in its next update.

But once these games have the car, what is next for LMP2 in sim racing? Clearly, we will not be seeing any brand-new models hit the virtual track for another four years. So now is surely the perfect time to take a look back in time and begin work on implementing LMP2 cars from years gone by. AMS2 with its fabulous historical tendencies is surely the title to pick up on the trend and put together the likes of a Ligier JSP2, Oreca 05 or 03 or even a more obscure Caterham, Acura ARX-03 or Strakka.

And we would not say no to some period-correct multiclass competition to be added, either.

Would you like to see previous generations of LMP2 car hit the virtual track? Let us know on Twitter @OverTake_gg or in the comments below!
About author
Angus Martin
Motorsport gets my blood pumping more than anything else. Be it physical or virtual, I'm down to bang doors.

Comments

AMS2 offering these original and great LMPs from the Brazilian championship, with several categories, I am not sure adding these LMP2s would be relevant. In terms of content, I'd like more cars for existing categories (historic GTs Prototype C...) than a new category with one or two cars, which would race with no other category from the same era. These cars were made for endurance races with other categories.
 
Indeed these cars were covered in a mod for GTR2 and then later a smaller mod for rF2. The C65 Courage (smaller LMP2 than the C75) was the original base for the the Acura ARX 01-B that contested the ALMS series against the Porsche RS Spyder.
 
Would you like to see previous generations of LMP2 car hit the virtual track?
I already have all those previous generation in my favorite Sim, @Angus Martin you need to look a little harder, if you are really interested. :D
I totally agree, those car are much more interesting than the present LMP2 crop. LMP2 use to offer variety, now it is more like a one brand race.
preview.jpg

Really a beautiful animal.:cool:
 
Last edited:
I have an opinion and not everyone (or even many) will agree with it, but I'll air it anyway, simply to make a point that will do a very short round and disappear!
Motorsport has, for that past couple of decades and some, kinda lost it's way in respect of the traditional fan, with rules tightening so much that there seems only one way to go, and if there arises another way then it should be thawted and nerfed as to bring it into line, mid engined, front engined, rear engined, all with different capacity engines and different cylinder configurations as road cars and very interesting, but in GT3 there is very little difference between them bar the sound (which nowadays can be computerised and adjusted anyway) and with the (I believe) awful jellymold bodywork only colourschemes identify many of them, GT2 more interesting, but same old story really, same with GT4... though they are more readily identifyable as specific cars, but again they are nerfed and fiddled with from race to race so that the driver can make the difference and an Alpine/Toyota can beat a McLaren.
The LMP 1/2/h, to me it's the same story again with many of the cars very flat barn door things with lumps for wheels and driver looking so similar* if they were all painted in white there's little or no difference, the engines might be very different but in category by category they're within the same second in the same hands,
I understand that some were open and others were closed, but barring that, I could look at a LMP1/2 car and not know what era it comes from, I know about the dart shaped Nissan thing perhaps the only one to an uninterested eye to be in any way different.
So with that in mind, I wonder what would the selling point be were LMP 2 series to be fired out as a DLC, what market it there? the on line stuff certainly has it's throat cut with performance balencing issues bringing no performance difference and with the cars looking so similar I can only see the real hardcore LMP2 pertroheads knowing the difference and choosing their team or sponsor to create their excitement with, after all, the teams for F1 games are fairly well known, and GT3 cars can generate it fans for their road cars, and the likes of Zytek,Riley,Dallara and Oreca are hardly household names, and Duqueine and Norma for LMP 3 are perhaps even less well known

* :laugh: I know that the cigar tube 1 1/2 liter F1 cars of the 60's, and to the untrained eye the sports cars of those decades before might seem the same, but to their credit they did for the most part run National colours.
 
HPD ARX-01c present in iRacing.
Brought back from Legacy limbo by iRacing itself and being raced again in official guise in Proto/GT Challenge series along with Aston Martin DBR9 GT1, Corvette C6 GT1 and Ford GT GT2 (basically a bit of ALMS 2010).
And iRacing has kept the car's price at legacy level, so only 2.95 dollars (+vat)!
 
Last edited:
but in GT3 there is very little difference between them bar the sound (which nowadays can be computerised and adjusted anyway)
What do you mean by computerised?
Becasue other than silencer limits in some places the sounds of these modern GT cars are still very much coming from the car.
The LMP 1/2/h, to me it's the same story again with many of the cars very flat barn door things with lumps for wheels and driver looking so similar* if they were all painted in white there's little or no difference, the engines might be very different but in category by category they're within the same second in the same hands,
I understand that some were open and others were closed, but barring that, I could look at a LMP1/2 car and not know what era it comes from.

* :laugh: I know that the cigar tube 1 1/2 liter F1 cars of the 60's, and to the untrained eye the sports cars of those decades before might seem the same, but to their credit they did for the most part run National colours.
this feels like a bit of a double standard and I'd argue if you took the LMP2 & F1 fields from a year in the 2000s or 2010s you'd have an easier time telling the LMPs apart than the F1s unless you'd only ever watched F1.
Certainly I feel like 2007-17 there was a very noticable difference in the shape of the cars even if you took the livery away.

Motorsport has, for that past couple of decades and some, kinda lost it's way in respect of the traditional fan, with rules tightening so much that there seems only one way to go, and if there arises another way then it should be thawted and nerfed as to bring it into line, mid engined, front engined, rear engined, all with different capacity engines and different cylinder configurations as road cars and very interesting, but in GT3 there is very little difference between them bar the sound (which nowadays can be computerised and adjusted anyway) and with the (I believe) awful jellymold bodywork only colourschemes identify many of them, GT2 more interesting, but same old story really, same with GT4... though they are more readily identifyable as specific cars, but again they are nerfed and fiddled with from race to race so that the driver can make the difference and an Alpine/Toyota can beat a McLaren.
There are certainly debatable points with BoP and its application.
But when people talk about the glory days of GT1, that was a flash in the pan.
The modern BoP'd GT classes have for the most part delivered a really good period of close and varied racing. Their use in IMSA especially has delivered a fanstasic class.
I understand the love for the engineering behind cars that just dominated and couldn't be touched. But that killed several classes. GT3 & 4 were designed for private teams, it's a different way of going racing and certainly a different way of engineering a car.
But honesly watching the Spa 24, Daytona 24, Le Mans and other races where they've been used they genuinly have been a good thing for GT racing I feel.
 
LMP2 up to 2008 (aka LMP675) was great as the best lightweights could actually challenge the top class beasts and even beat them at some tracks.

LMP2 from 2011 to 2016 was great as cost-cutting measures worked (325k for chassis, 75k for engine were the asking prices allowed) while not reneging on variety and letting teams mix and match combos to find what worked best for them.

LMP2 from 2017 to 2020 destroyed that...but we got machines for around 600k which could deliver ASTOUNDING performance levels. Their laptimes were faster than Audi and Peugeot in 2011 for less than a tenth of a price!

Otter eras...eh.
 
Last edited:
IER P13b LMP2 Endurance Prototype

https://public-files.*******.com/7wk6exoo1tto2j7to750rjxojvkr

Duh.


EDIT: Your link function does not even come close to working.
 

Attachments

  • Screenshot_ier_p13c_doningtonpark2018_25-10-119-21-29-11.png
    Screenshot_ier_p13c_doningtonpark2018_25-10-119-21-29-11.png
    1.3 MB · Views: 59
Last edited:
That reminded me of the AER/Mazda debacle. AER was seriously cutting weight for their 2.0L Turbo. So much weight cutting that the block would twist....An entire season of engine failures UNLESS the teams seriously turned down the boost. The (?) Judd (?) 3.5L V8 was a good LMP2 engine. There was a 3rd brand if I recall..another memory lost to the ether... OH! Zytek which is still alive as a Gibson today!
 
Last edited:
EnduRacers is all I can think of reading this! :p
capture-2b7932b.jpg
Enduracers is a fantastic mod! And I'm guilty of spending countless hours racing the different cars in various time scaled real world races. But it's slightly earlier than the era I'm looking for in the article. Rather than ILMC, 2011-16 is the early WEC days!
 
You know what else is completely missing from simracing? The old Canadian-American Challenge Cup from the years 1966 to 1974.

I can't understand that there is no interest at all, there were so many iconic and brutal cars and tracks.
Yes! Can-Am cars are bonkers, would be great to have some more. But I'd guess many would struggle to keep them on-track (myself included )
 
Regards... I have always liked LMP in general, and LM P2 in particular is one of my favorite classes because of the equality of vehicles it offers, and among them I really enjoy the Ligier JSP2 in Automobilista 2 where we can also choose between Honda, Judd engines and Nissan. There is always a lot of talk about the Assetto vehicle modding scene, but I have no doubt that the AMS2 vehicle modding scene is today already very notable for the great quality and quantity of content it has, while without doubt and from what you can see it is still quite unknown, because I rarely see it mentioned in these articles, so here I leave a small clip that I just made demonstrating a multiclass...
 

Attachments

  • ss011800.jpg
    ss011800.jpg
    202.5 KB · Views: 32
  • Ligier JSP2.jpg
    Ligier JSP2.jpg
    163.9 KB · Views: 49
Last edited:
LMP2 has had quite a few good eras, I do hope the next one is good...

This one is around in a few forms... But never have I seen the full 18 cars represented... That would be something... And lines up with WEC... So would be great to see in LMU...

I agree with the general sentiment of others in this thread... There's a bit of lustre that Motorsport has lost with all of these cost control ideals... It's necessary to keep the sports from ending up like group C, Super Tourers and various others... But at the same time gives us these almost one make series, just different companies making the same specifications... Right down to the engine type and/or performance levels...

Part of the beauty of historic sim racing is that you can race in things made when the engineering differences made a large difference on how each corner can be attack by different cars in the same class...
 

Latest News

Article information

Author
Angus Martin
Article read time
5 min read
Views
4,470
Comments
46
Last update

Do you prefer licensed hardware?

  • Yes for me it is vital

  • Yes, but only if it's a manufacturer I like

  • Yes, but only if the price is right

  • No, a generic wheel is fine

  • No, I would be ok with a replica


Results are only viewable after voting.
Back
Top