rFactor 2 | Q2 Content Release and Patch Out Now

wolftree · May 11, 2022

v4v474 said:
Jardier loved it.
It's not a matter of saying negative things. He emphasised how good it felt and looked and since he was both real world driving experience and simracing experience, I think his opinion is relevant, as opposed to yours.
Perhaps your FFB settings are not right or your hardware - wheel base - is not letting the FFB shine and give you the info you could get out of it.

Other people have commented on the bizarre FFB on the Corolla, including the latest videos from SimRacing604 and Aidan Millward (a rF2 fanboy). And there aren't exactly a lot of options in the rF2 FFB setup, certainly nothing that reduces the excessive torque steer. FWD cars in every other sim (AC, AMS2, R3E) work just fine, communicate the information necessary for driving, and feel like driving an over-powered road car.

Mekonrider · May 11, 2022

Maybe he's a paid reviewer? Happens.

JohnnyO · May 11, 2022

Haven't played rF2 for ages. Just wondered if they have fixed the 'physics that can be broken problem yet'? And the odd Ai behaviour in wet/dry conditions, i.e. they all dive into the pits as soon as it starts to rain? Its a potentially a great sim but very frustrating because of problems that never seem to get sorted.

henkjansmits · May 11, 2022

I tried rf2 again to see if the latest version is working properly so I can buy the Q2.

The framerate in VR is quite unpredictable, it seems there are certain things that slow it down massively (running out of VRAM on 3080, or certain effects, or certain car...) (apart from the obvious ones as rain and nighttime).

My other main issue is the effect on the FFB of flatspotting on DD wheels. If you drive competition system or you want to drive offline in a way that is similar to competition to prepare you have to turn the "artificial" TC+ABS off in the difficulty. But then 1-2 lockups will make the FFB on DD wheel completely undrivable with lots off rattling etc to the point you have to park the car or change tyres even though its still perfectly driveable from physics point of view.

The problem with the sound is that at default settings you cannot hear other cars, combined with the fact that you cannot adjust mirrors in VR (afaik) you are nearly completely oblivious whether there is a car behind you.

Majuh · May 11, 2022

ziogzzz said:
I was telling in previous comments rf2 died.. sorry i took package with btcc and 3 tracks.. dialed my sc2pro like sheet with no hapiness, and the rf2 god came i dialed it!!! What an expierence! Best TCR cars i drove , please guys do not put original cars of 397 studio on Mod track it will feel not ao good even very bad! I said i love iR very much crystal clear view on my tripples 3X27” 1080p, but R3e the most liked tcr cars feels like dead on ffb, compared to rf2.

Just saying, but the BTCC doesn't use TCR cars. Those are different machines.

mantasisg · May 11, 2022

henkjansmits said:
My other main issue is the effect on the FFB of flatspotting on DD wheels. If you drive competition system or you want to drive offline in a way that is similar to competition to prepare you have to turn the "artificial" TC+ABS off in the difficulty. But then 1-2 lockups will make the FFB on DD wheel completely undrivable with lots off rattling etc to the point you have to park the car or change tyres even though its still perfectly driveable from physics point of view.

This one is up to debate IMO. Should simracers identify real life issues as issues in simulation of reality ? In my opinion it is not an issue, and it should be exactly what people should want if they are going after simulation. Simracers should want all RL issues to happen in simulation. However, years of me floating around simracing forums has made me realize that people DO NOT want uncomfortable parts of reality, and would prefer these taken out of simulation or significantly reduced, over actually developing skills and adapting. It is not uncommon for developers to be so too, additionally forthem it means avoiding some problems of development plus avoiding risks of being disliked, overshooting needs of majority. Sadly this is why simulation in simracing will COMPLETELY die over upcoming decade or two.

Mekonrider · May 11, 2022

mantasisg said:
This one is up to debate IMO. Should simracers identify real life issues as issues in simulation of reality ? In my opinion it is not an issue, and it should be exactly what people should want if they are going after simulation. Simracers should want all RL issues to happen in simulation. However, years of me floating around simracing forums has made me realize that people DO NOT want uncomfortable parts of reality, and would prefer these taken out of simulation or significantly reduced, over actually developing skills and adapting. It is not uncommon for developers to be so too, additionally forthem it means avoiding some problems of development plus avoiding risks of being disliked, overshooting needs of majority. Sadly this is why simulation in simracing will COMPLETELY die over upcoming decade or two.

But in the Wolftree video of the BTCC at Donington the car was behaving in a very unreal manner. I've watched BTCC cars coming down Craner Curves since the early 90s and I've never seen a car react like that. I'd be extremely happy if sim racing physics perfectly replicated reality. I've got arcade racers if I want to play arcade racers.

v4v474 · May 11, 2022

Austin Ogonoski said:
Sounds well worth the asking price lol

It is, even if a bit pricey, as we are talking about the best rendition of Brands, Laguna and Donny in the business, to go along with the BTCC cars which are an absolute riot to drive.
So the Q2 DLC content has been extremely well received by the overwhelming majority of users (minus the usual Negative-Nancys).
Of course, there are some teething issues which are being looked into and solved.
Yours sincerely,
The Non-Organic Alien Emissary

v4v474 · May 11, 2022

henkjansmits said:
I tried rf2 again to see if the latest version is working properly so I can buy the Q2.

The framerate in VR is quite unpredictable, it seems there are certain things that slow it down massively (running out of VRAM on 3080, or certain effects, or certain car...) (apart from the obvious ones as rain and nighttime).

My other main issue is the effect on the FFB of flatspotting on DD wheels. If you drive competition system or you want to drive offline in a way that is similar to competition to prepare you have to turn the "artificial" TC+ABS off in the difficulty. But then 1-2 lockups will make the FFB on DD wheel completely undrivable with lots off rattling etc to the point you have to park the car or change tyres even though its still perfectly driveable from physics point of view.

The problem with the sound is that at default settings you cannot hear other cars, combined with the fact that you cannot adjust mirrors in VR (afaik) you are nearly completely oblivious whether there is a car behind you.

VR: check the two options available, which are Tappi + FHolger + Retrolux combo of GFX Settings App (which allows you to have presets and quickly change before booting rF2), OpenVR FSR (also with NIS support), and Reshade for sharpening; Or, alternatively, OpenXR, which bypasses for non-Steam VR headsets the SteamVR altogether (massive FPS increase).
FFB: Flat spotting is a consequence of driver mistakes when braking, so your complaint is directed towards one of the better aspects of rFactor 2, so... you need to improve there, not rFactor 2 to change...
VR again: It's not the most user friendly adjustment system, but I have no trouble adjusting mirrors in VR and use only the "real ones" in the car.

v4v474 · May 11, 2022

JohnnyO said:
Haven't played rF2 for ages. Just wondered if they have fixed the 'physics that can be broken problem yet'? And the odd Ai behaviour in wet/dry conditions, i.e. they all dive into the pits as soon as it starts to rain? Its a potentially a great sim but very frustrating because of problems that never seem to get sorted.

AI Pit logic is now vastly improved and they select tyres correctly.
"Physics' broken" is a broad commentary which ultimately has never been 100% correct. There is still no tyre pressure/temperature variation based on track temperature, but this is in the to do list.
Outside of that, rFactor 2's GT3/GTE/LMP cars do have a tyre model which is too forgiving, but it's in the process of being replaced by a more recent one which is already adopted on the BMW M4 Class 1, the Formula Pro, the Dallara IR18 and on the BTCC cars, being that this tyre model is not forgiving and penalises untidy driving (heat build up/grip loss/wear).

v4v474 · May 11, 2022

wolftree said:
The Corolla has the typical bizarre rF2 FWD physics. Touching the throttle stops an oversteer slide and turns it into instant understeer way quicker than any other FWD cars in any other sim. Also the celebrated FFB for this car consists only of bumps and torque steer. I don't feel anything the tyres are doing. I guess you can get used to it but it just doesn't feel like driving a car.

The Infiniti drives better but has this strange thing where the slightest nudge or breathing on a kerb is liable to send it spearing sideways into a wall:

Bottoming out or something? Not a great recipe for BTCC-style racing.

The tracks are nice, although nothing special compared to every other sim. Also the sounds are all messed up unless you increase the number of sound channels (what year is it?) to 256.

I believe that what you had there was a "tyre wall whip", ie. you bent the tyre in one direction and when the force pushing in that direction was relieved (less throttle, for instance), the tyre rubber pushed/snapped you in the other direction.
I had it during testing and it felt pretty good to me and exactly as expected.
But hey, that's how I felt it...

mantasisg · May 11, 2022

Mekonrider said:
But in the Wolftree video of the BTCC at Donington the car was behaving in a very unreal manner. I've watched BTCC cars coming down Craner Curves since the early 90s and I've never seen a car react like that. I'd be extremely happy if sim racing physics perfectly replicated reality. I've got arcade racers if I want to play arcade racers.

Could you link the video ? Otherwise I have no idea what you are talking about.

I don't have the cars yet, but I watched bunch of videos in YT. Mostly the way cars drive looks very good. I have seen couple vids where sliding appeared a little bit too "safe" in my opinion, on the other hand tires are taking big wear hits while driving this way, and it doesn't seem to be the fast way, so it isn't necessarily unrealistic. I am looking forward trying myself.

In case you are referring to vid that v4v4 quoted above my post, this looks totally realistic. And you should expect such stuff to happen for bad drivers with slow hands while driving cars with grippy tires. Perfectly realistic.

Check out my thread in rF2 forum about unrealistic real life physics..... in real life.

https://forum.studio-397.com/index.php?threads/the-unrealistically-difficult-real-cars-handling-thread-or-just-incorrect-real-life-physics.66967/

Edit: few minutes of Youtubestigation and I already saw tons of spins at that turn:

v4v474 · May 11, 2022

wolftree said:
Other people have commented on the bizarre FFB on the Corolla, including the latest videos from SimRacing604 and Aidan Millward (a rF2 fanboy). And there aren't exactly a lot of options in the rF2 FFB setup, certainly nothing that reduces the excessive torque steer. FWD cars in every other sim (AC, AMS2, R3E) work just fine, communicate the information necessary for driving, and feel like driving an over-powered road car.

"Confirmation Bias Alert!"
Aidan's commentary was strictly connected to him not liking FWD cars and that they feel obviously different to drive, so it was done in jest.
Mike's commentary was that he was feeling "something weird" in the centre of the wheel movement, so it was not even an in depth commentary from his side and there was no reference to "lack of detail".
With this I am not saying that you are right or wrong, just that you are over stating and/or miss representing what was said to corroborate your view on the subject.
And both videos had a very positive overall opinion (Mike finished saying: "cars feel great", "really great cars" and "had a fantastic time driving them").

PS: Aidan races ACC (streams it), iRacing (streams it too) and rFactor 2 (I don't think he streams it). It is true that he does commentary for S397 and therefore he is on their payroll, but I don't think he would be positive just because of that.

tr1v1um · May 11, 2022

Mekonrider said:
But in the Wolftree video of the BTCC at Donington the car was behaving in a very unreal manner. I've watched BTCC cars coming down Craner Curves since the early 90s and I've never seen a car react like that. I'd be extremely happy if sim racing physics perfectly replicated reality. I've got arcade racers if I want to play arcade racers.

Could be that he just hooked up the FL wheel behind the inner curb wich resulted in oversteer that he corrected too much and the car snapped. Not saying there can't be a bug due to collision that maybe needs to be refined but a snapp oversteer or lift off oversteer like that is not unreal. People can crash at much lowers speeds like that. My all time favorite:

v4v474 · May 11, 2022

mantasisg said:
Could you link the video ? Otherwise I have no idea what you are talking about.

I don't have the cars yet, but I watched bunch of videos in YT. Mostly the way cars drive looks very good. I have seen couple vids where sliding appeared a little bit too "safe" in my opinion, on the other hand tires are taking big wear hits while driving this way, and it doesn't seem to be the fast way, so it isn't necessarily unrealistic. I am looking forward trying myself.

In case you are referring to vid that v4v4 quoted above my post, this looks totally realistic. And you should expect such stuff to happen for bad drivers with slow hands while driving cars with grippy tires. Perfectly realistic.

Check out my thread in rF2 forum about unrealistic real life physics..... in real life.

https://forum.studio-397.com/index.php?threads/the-unrealistically-difficult-real-cars-handling-thread-or-just-incorrect-real-life-physics.66967/

Exactly and this is HUGE improvement coming back with these new tyres as that tyre-wall snap back seemingly was absent from the much maligned - and deservedly so - GT3/GTE/LMP tyres*.

* Personally I believe that the "Hard compound" on those "bad" tyres actually feels pretty good and that if their tyre wear was dramatically increased, they would have been a really good "Soft compound".

gianlucaP · May 11, 2022

Tarmac Terrorist · May 11, 2022

BlobbeLobbe said:
I remember I bought rF2 years ago and thought it sucked bad with a requirement of a gazillion tweaks and addons and what not to even work properly especially comparing to Assetto Corsa.

Is it worth an reinstall ?

Definately! Especially now the A.I. have been sorted and choose correct tires for conditions and don't get caught in a pitstop loop! Also for the first time ever you now has less grip on the rubbered in parts of the track in the wet (like IRL) so you actually need to change you're line somewhat. That and the new tracks & Cars are awsome!

Tarmac Terrorist · May 11, 2022

JohnnyO said:
Haven't played rF2 for ages. Just wondered if they have fixed the 'physics that can be broken problem yet'? And the odd Ai behaviour in wet/dry conditions, i.e. they all dive into the pits as soon as it starts to rain? Its a potentially a great sim but very frustrating because of problems that never seem to get sorted.

Yes mate! I can happily say the A.I. now use the correct tires for conditions and if weather changes, they change accordingly and also don't then get caught in a loop where they just pit every other lap after that and you suddenly loose half the feild, its a game changer! I love it! You can even go into the standings tab and it actually tells you in real time what tires your opponents are on, its fantastic! Here's proof of A.I. changing tires for conditions in a race!

tr1v1um · May 11, 2022

wolftree said:
Other people have commented on the bizarre FFB on the Corolla, including the latest videos from SimRacing604 and Aidan Millward (a rF2 fanboy). And there aren't exactly a lot of options in the rF2 FFB setup, certainly nothing that reduces the excessive torque steer. FWD cars in every other sim (AC, AMS2, R3E) work just fine, communicate the information necessary for driving, and feel like driving an over-powered road car.

I think most people don't know how real torque steer feels. I frequently drive cars that have no power steering and you have excessive torque steer even at lower torque ranges. That's with cars that have around 50 bhp and very soft road suspension. Now compare that to a modern BTCC car that has 370 bhp and a very stiff racing suspension. Doesn't need further explaination if you ask me. On top of that, rF2 doesn't add power steering effects ontop of the suspension forces and the forces on the steering rack like AC for example, so you will feel a noticable difference. AC is simulating more what you feel on the wheel, while rF2 is more foces on the direct forces from the suspension to convey a seat of pants feeling. Also funny to read people complaining about vibrations due to lock ups ... are sim racers really such a breed of wimps?

davehenrie · May 11, 2022

JohnnyO said:
Haven't played rF2 for ages. Just wondered if they have fixed the 'physics that can be broken problem yet'? And the odd Ai behaviour in wet/dry conditions, i.e. they all dive into the pits as soon as it starts to rain? Its a potentially a great sim but very frustrating because of problems that never seem to get sorted.

The wet weather problems have been addressed. Here is the blog post with a changelog.

rFactor 2 | Q2 Content Release and Patch Out Now

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