2021 Formula One Abu Dhabi Grand Prix

For me it will always be 'the year Hamilton would/should have won'..

cerebralvortex said:

For me it will always be 'the year Hamilton would/should have won'..

Click to expand...

I feel same way about 2008, in Massa's favour.

I think the saddest thing about the whole season is the complete lack of trust I now have in the FIA.

Are decision made because they are following the rules? Or because Team Principle A is shouting louder than Team Principle B? Or because it will make for bigger, bolder headlines? Or because they are trying to make amends for mistakes made earlier in the race / season?

F1 has been shown to be a complete joke, this year, and unfortunately I cannot see an effective way for them to redeem themselves.

Ultimately I think in most scenarios Max was likely to win:

1) crash cleared earlier all lapped cars allowed to pass, same result
2) crash cleared allowing only partial amount of lapped cars to pass, actual result
3) crash cleared no cars allowed to pass, cars between Lewis and Max blue flagged and strictly told to not interfere, slight delay to Max getting on Lewis' gearbox, but in all probability same result

The ONLY way Mercedes/Lewis would be sure of winning (apart from Latifi NOT crashing) would be red flag restart and Lewis on same tyres as Max.

Fat-Alfie said:

I think the saddest thing about the whole season is the complete lack of trust I now have in the FIA.

Are decision made because they are following the rules? Or because Team Principle A is shouting louder than Team Principle B? Or because it will make for bigger, bolder headlines? Or because they are trying to make amends for mistakes made earlier in the race / season?

F1 has been shown to be a complete joke, this year, and unfortunately I cannot see an effective way for them to redeem themselves.

Click to expand...

I lost trust after Silverstone. How can someone the stewards regard as being the primary cause of a crash gain such a huge advantage from it?

Damage Inc said:

I've read that it wasn't clear and that it was clear.......as per usual there's too much white noise obscurring the absolute facts.

Click to expand...

Or he could’ve released all of the cars when he did those five. Upon replay, there was plenty of time to get all the lapped cars through and not just the first five.

But the rules state they must release all cars and then bring the SC in on the following lap. which would have been the end of the race. Not enough time to let Verstappen win by following the rules.

Damage Inc said:

Ultimately I think in most scenarios Max was likely to win:

1) crash cleared earlier all lapped cars allowed to pass, same result
2) crash cleared allowing only partial amount of lapped cars to pass, actual result
3) crash cleared no cars allowed to pass, cars between Lewis and Max blue flagged and strictly told to not interfere, slight delay to Max getting on Lewis' gearbox, but in all probability same result

The ONLY way Mercedes/Lewis would be sure of winning (apart from Latifi NOT crashing) would be red flag restart and Lewis on same tyres as Max.

Click to expand...

I think even with a restart, Max would have taken it. What made the difference wasn't as much the tires, rather Max's relentless ability to brake late and still lunge on the inside, just like he did on lap 1 of the race. To me, thats what won him the race and the title, the guy is a demon on the brakes.

Fat-Alfie said:

But the rules state they must release all cars and then bring the SC in on the following lap. which would have been the end of the race. Not enough time to let Verstappen win by following the rules.

Click to expand...

*any

Fat-Alfie said:

But the rules state they must release all cars and then bring the SC in on the following lap. which would have been the end of the race. Not enough time to let Verstappen win by following the rules.

Click to expand...

That’s a good point, but it seems that rule has not been consistently followed. It has been said that the unlapping has not always allowed the backmarkers to catch up to the pack (which is fine). Given the speed of unlapping vs speed of safety car, it seems that in those past scenarios the safety car has not done a full lap afterwards.

Racerx4169 said:

Why

Click to expand...

Im guessing because that did feel slightly engineered. Real shame F1 0

Richard Wilks said:

I think even with a restart, Max would have taken it. What made the difference wasn't as much the tires, rather Max's relentless ability to brake late and still lunge on the inside, just like he did on lap 1 of the race. To me, thats what won him the race and the title, the guy is a demon on the brakes.

Click to expand...

Have you ever seen any of Peter Windsors break downs of Max and Lewis and their driving styles? Apparently in comparison to Lewis Max is an early braker. Just piqued my interest with you saying that. He does seem to overtake Lewis a lot with ease, so im not sure how Peter is arriving at that conclusion, but apparently he has the car very settled by corner entry thanks to early braking.

Fat-Alfie said:

But the rules state they must release all cars and then bring the SC in on the following lap. which would have been the end of the race. Not enough time to let Verstappen win by following the rules.

Click to expand...

No it states that any car is required to pass etc. I know it's semantics, but if they mean all, they should just write all in there. Hopefully they will clear that matter up before next season.

More importantly, 15.3e gives the Race Director overriding authority over the use of the Safety Car, so his is the last word in that matter. According to the agreement to try and finish races under green flag the decision wasn't elegant, but within the regs and trying to uphold said agreement.

Colt459 said:

Or he could’ve released all of the cars when he did those five. Upon replay, there was plenty of time to get all the lapped cars through and not just the first five.

Click to expand...

Maybe he erred on the side of caution? either way if all lapped cars been allowed though Max would still have won and there'd be no grounds for complaints. Lewis was doomed the moment Latifi crashed unless the race finished behind the SC or full red and standing restart.

Richard Wilks said:

I think even with a restart, Max would have taken it. What made the difference wasn't as much the tires, rather Max's relentless ability to brake late and still lunge on the inside, just like he did on lap 1 of the race. To me, thats what won him the race and the title, the guy is a demon on the brakes.

Click to expand...

He defo would have a chance, but on equal tyres that Merc was just too fast.....the probablity would be Lewis would prevail, only my opinion of course.

Dethrone1427 said:

Have you ever seen any of Peter Windsors break downs of Max and Lewis and their driving styles? Apparently in comparison to Lewis Max is an early braker. Just piqued my interest with you saying that. He does seem to overtake Lewis a lot with ease, so im not sure how Peter is arriving at that conclusion, but apparently he has the car very settled by corner entry thanks to early braking.

Click to expand...

Probably because the Red Bull is a better handling car, with higher corner speed. Faster cars can tend to brake late, square off the corner with lower corner speed and just power out. Same in Moto GP, Yamaha slow as feck but corners better, Ducati and Honda fast as feck and dogs in the corners (simplistic generalisation).

Gevatter said:

No it states that any car is required to pass etc. I know it's semantics, but if they mean all, they should just write all in there. Hopefully they will clear that matter up before next season.

More importantly, 15.3e gives the Race Director overriding authority over the use of the Safety Car, so his is the last word in that matter. According to the agreement to try and finish races under green flag the decision wasn't elegant, but within the regs and trying to uphold said agreement.

https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files/2021_formula_1_sporting_regulations_-_iss_13_-_2021-12-08.pdf

Click to expand...

Who cares if they are elegant. They just need to be equitable.

LeSunTzu said:

Who cares if they are elegant. They just need to be equitable.

Click to expand...

Like every race but its not

Should have been red flagged with 5 laps to go. Masi should have recognized the amount of junk on the track after the Williams crash warranted a red flag. All parties can change tires and a standing restart would have made the outcome at least fair. Max and Lewis fighting on the same tires for the last five laps would have been epic.

Damage Inc said:

The race director is allowed to use his discretion. There is no explicit rule that says ALL lapped cars MUST unlap themselves. It's a grey area that will require a rule rewrite. That's the legal world for you, much worse has been done regarding legal "technicality" in the criminal courts!!

Click to expand...

Masi at the Eiffel Grand Prix last year (the race in which Hulkenberg played supersub) responding to questions regarding Safety Car usage:

"There's a requirement in the sporting regulations to wave all the lapped cars past."

Personally I believe that 'Any' cars in the regulations is clearly meant to mean 'All' cars. But, whatever my opinion, it is apparent that this was Masi's view also which begs the question, why has Masi behaved inconsistently with his own interpretation of the rules?

Fat-Alfie said:

But the rules state they must release all cars and then bring the SC in on the following lap. which would have been the end of the race. Not enough time to let Verstappen win by following the rules.

Click to expand...

Firstly, letting all cars go is immaterial to the Hamilton complaint, as this would have only affected the cars behind (Sainz & co.). So this doesn't affect Hamilton.

Secondly, you are being selective in your hypothetical. Because if we are playing hypotheticals there is no reason not to go back one lap earlier and say that really the cars should have been let through then. This would still have left 1 lap to finish the race. That is where the real confusion started after all, the initial message not to pass. Check the comments from other drivers, or the radio from Alonso during the race, who were confused that they waited to have the backmarkers cleared.

It seems to me that Masi during the race missed or forgot to clear the backmarkers, so the signal wasn't given. When it finally was given, for some reason not all cars were allowed to clear (perhaps because there was not enough time to do this safely). Then Masi, in consideration of the fact that the teams themselves had previously agreed to make all efforts to finish under green flag, used his discretionary power as race director to restart the race safely with 1 lap left, to ensure that at least the championship could be decided on track.

So there are two possible 'mistakes' that could have happened.

Pro-Hamilton outcome: the race finishes under yellow flag, due to the mistake from the race director not to clear the backmakers in time. And yes that is a mistake, because as mentioned the teams agreed that races should finish under green flag. Everyone is probably even more mad because more Verstappen fans + ****up from FIA not clearing cars (conspiracy theories etc.).

Pro-Verstappen outcome: the race finishes under green flag, Masi fixes his error by allowing the race leaders to battle for the win (while maintaining safety), but thereby doesn't follow the letter of the rules.

Either way would have been a mistake deciding the championship. In my opinion, the current outcome makes by far the most sense. Firstly, because if after the crash by Latifi the procedure would have been followed correctly (and in a timely manner), the result would have been the same, namely Hamilton on old tyres racing Max on without backmarker interference. Not only that, but according to the teams themselves that would have been the preferred outcome. So I have no problem with Masi fixing his earlier mistake by using his discretionary race director power to make the sure the outcome that should have happened also happened in reality, which is also the outcome that the teams wanted. To me that seems like a more equitable outcome than Hamilton being saved by mistakes from the race director.

Now, how it's possible that the race director forgot to (or didn't) let cars through earlier is another matter, whether that is incompetence or simply being overloaded with responsibilities (as some have suggested). as is whether it's the task of the racing director to act as arbiter. To that latter point, I feel like Mercedes and Red Bull have invited that role from the racing director upon themselves this season in particular by their constant appeals, so they should honestly be the last teams to complain about this.

It's also a bit sad that while in every sport people accept that arbiters can and do make mistakes, and that such mistakes (if they even are mistakes) are not grounds to appeal results, this attitude doesn't seem to be as prevalent in F1 at the moment.