2021 Formula One Abu Dhabi Grand Prix

Bram Hengeveld said:

I think the mistake was made at the first pitstop. Why did Mercedes follow the early pit strategy of RBR who were on softs? In my opinion they gave away the initiative to Red Bull with that strange decision.

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They knew they were much faster and just had to cover up the under cut. At that point, they had the lead, had the pace and would then would be on the same strategy.

Last thing they wanted was for Max to switch to hards and gain track position.

navb said:

Not really.

Even as a Lewis fan, when he ran wide at T5 on the opening lap, I said he needs to give that position back. In fact, I still don't understand what "advantage he gave up" to neutralise running wide. Steward inconsistency as usual.

But you seem to be in "no doubt" about a lot of things. Makes having conversations with people online pointless.

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I felt the same way at the start, but look at it this way:
Max did an aggressive late dive (just like Ricciardo does a lot)
Whatever you do, you should always leave the other cars with OPTIONS.
In this case: Lewis was already turning into the corner at a certain speed when Max made his dive.
Was it possible for Lewis to break hard, stay on track and slot in behind Max? No, he also had too much speed. So his ONLY option was to leave the track, Max made him do it, hence no penalty.

It was different in Barcelona. Max also made an aggressive move, and Lewis decided to fight him in the corner, but he had at all times the OPTION to back out. That's why Max got no punishment.

I think, if you get more into detail, you will find more consistency from the FIA than would appear at first glance. But of course, some in this forum are true fanboys that feel that their driver is ALWAYS right.

I suspect that Mercedes were concerned that if Max got in front then any overtake attempts by Lewis would have been defended "robustly" and they HAD to finish the race.

davehenrie said:

And yet, we have nearly 40 pages of 'fans' arguing about the result. Seems like a win for whatever sport is being considered. The death of a sport begins when nobody talks about it. Ask Champcar.

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This is my point exactly. The only really important thing is to have people discussing it. It's all about engagement. It doesn't matter if it's celebrations, commiserations, or righteous indignation.

Bram Hengeveld said:

I think the mistake was made at the first pitstop. Why did Mercedes follow the early pit strategy of RBR who were on softs? In my opinion they gave away the initiative to Red Bull with that strange decision.

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I also was surprised by the first Pit stop at the end Mercedes put themselves in this position with a chain off strategy errors and blame the Fia in an unsportsmanlike manner.

asdfl;jsk said:

?

Hamilton made a very clear error going into turn 6 by not defending the inside. Verstappen clearly had the slipstream and a decent exit coming onto the straight. Hamilton left the door wide open, Verstappen jumped in, took the racing line and made the corner. Hamilton braked too late and left himself with no option other than to go wide. You can call that aggressive racing, but literally all the ex-drivers during the broad (including fellow Brits like Brundle and Palmer) called it a clear penalty on Hamilton.

Hindsight is obviously 20/20, but Hamilton should have defended the inside or braked early (undercutting Max who went deep into the corner). Staying on the outside and just driving on like nothing happened, especially when there is no contact and when the other driver is on the track (on the racing line), has never been allowed in F1. It wouldn't be good for racing either if this was allowed, as going defensive in these situations is what makes the racing exciting in the first place. Hamilton would have had to compromise turn 6 to defend, giving Verstappen another shot down the second straight.

Funnily enough in the last lap you actually see Verstappen doing this correctly, by defending the inside to turn 6, and then later defending the inside on turn 9 as well.

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This 100%.

Hamilton entered turn 6 at a disadvantage with less than a thousand of a second gap and came out of the chicane with a 1.2 second advantage gained from cutting the corner entirely. He absolutely didn't give up time gained and commentators even said, "Hamilton will have to give back position, but of course he should" because they knew it was clear cut: if you leave the door open on the inside line, if the other car is ahead of you entering the corner, you go wide and yield.

Did Horner get on the radio like Toto did, "No Michael! No!"? No, they accepted that the race directors absolutely make the wrong call sometimes, and got back to trying to win the race.

But that's how "real Formula 1 fans" act nowadays. If race directors let Lewis get away with it, it's just a "racing incident" but if Lewis gets penalized, he's being "singled out". It's ironic because Lewis gets handed entire GP victories (Silverstone was absolutely a black flag/DQ foul) by Toto screaming into the microphone at Masi.
I see a lot of people in this thread said F1 is done, the championship will be given back to Lewis and that if it doesn't happen, they'll leave and won't watch. So now that Mercedes is withdrawing its protest, will you all leave now? I'm already excited about 2022 testing and if you're leaving because we're not "real F1 fans", we'd prefer to have the people who are not watching out of protest, also not take part in the discussion.

Congrats Max Verstappen.
And for Lewis: I honestly believe he will beat Schumacher's record next year. He just needs to actually race, to win it this time and tell his team to stop coddling him on the RD radio. If they let Lewis drive and listened to his feedback, they'd get to see him win on the merit he deserves to win by.
Someone like Max, the new up and coming multi-champion is exactly what Lewis needs after 2 or 3 WDC's winning 2 races before the finale and always having incidents and engine failures giving him a huge advantage.

Corbyy said:

Well, I will stay there since it goes in circles. There should never have been a last lap and Hamilton is the 2021 world champion if the rules had been purely applied then Verstappen will never have the right to wear the number 1 in 2022 because in March, we will be in the middle of the CAS procedure. Make the most of your break-in under the guise of an incompetent race director because justice will be done.

Sir Lewis Hamilton, congrats for the 8th World Drivers' Championship
It's inevitable

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https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/1013...onsiders-withdrawing-protest-against-fia.html
So... Will you stop participating in F1 discussions as well as watching events or...?
Sorry, since you claimed that Max's win would be reversed or they would lose real F1 fans, I'm assuming that since Mercedes is withdrawing and the second FIA protest was also dismissed (meaning Max is champion because even if they appeal further, the race outcome has been determined), that you will be moving on to something more fair like GT3?

For the record, I hope you continue to watch, because Lewis will absolutely win his 8th WDC next year, and hopefully by actually driving, having regs apply to him fairly as they apply to his opponents (No Silverstone was NOT a racing incident, so if what happened there was okay then what happened at Abu Dhabi was okay) and actually racing.

But I completely dislike the way you call people who say Max's win was legit "not real F1 fans". Gatekeeping like that is unacceptable and honestly, if people who say stuff like that stop watching F1, I say good riddance. The sport will live longer without toxicity.

this is what Grand pa Eclestone say...................................
MUNICH - Former Formula 1 CEO Bernie Ecclestone has said Max Verstappen is the deserved world champion. “At a very young age, he has already been able to compete with Lewis Hamilton, one of the best drivers ever. Not just on the track, but also off it.”


That said the 91-year-old Briton in an interview with a media group from Munich. Verstappen decided in his favor on the last lap of the last Grand Prix. Ecclestone: „And that while the Mercedes team has gone out of its way to bully him, to upset him. Mercedes also has the best car at its disposal. That makes Verstappen's performance even more valuable. He makes the difference in the race.”

Ecclestone considers it incomprehensible that Mercedes does not seem to accept the defeat for the time being. “They probably build the best cars in the world. But with this attitude, they put scratches on their own star. That is very unwise.”

Ecclestone therefore calls Mercedes' behavior a joke. “Their team bosses try to influence race management decisions even during the race. The sport suffers as a result. Pure competition should come first. The drivers have provided great sport. It's a shame it's overshadowed in this way."

Aside all this talk about who's WC and who deserves what ... Yuki-san P4? Dude, I did not even notice that at all, everything was so focused on the first two, that I was really surprised today to check the whole results and see him finishing on P4 Awesome.

zwiss said:

I felt the same way at the start, but look at it this way:
Max did an aggressive late dive (just like Ricciardo does a lot)
Whatever you do, you should always leave the other cars with OPTIONS.
In this case: Lewis was already turning into the corner at a certain speed when Max made his dive.
Was it possible for Lewis to break hard, stay on track and slot in behind Max? No, he also had too much speed. So his ONLY option was to leave the track, Max made him do it, hence no penalty.

It was different in Barcelona. Max also made an aggressive move, and Lewis decided to fight him in the corner, but he had at all times the OPTION to back out. That's why Max got no punishment.

I think, if you get more into detail, you will find more consistency from the FIA than would appear at first glance. But of course, some in this forum are some fanboys that and feel that their driver is ALWAYS right.

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Not sure 'leaving another driver options' has ever been part of the F1 vocab. Look up F1 divebomb compilation on youtube, most of them involve leaving little to no room for the outside car (like almost every Monza T1 divebomb).

Also what are you basing this bolded part on? Max is coming in with higher speed and still manages to brake and make the corner. It stands to reason that Hamilton would have been able to make the corner as well if he really wanted to. Only that would have obviously resulted in him going second through the corner.

Anyway, if you don't defend your corner against a slipstreaming opponent, don't be surprised when you get divebombed on the inside, and run out of road by an overtaking driver on the racing line. F1 should just start putting down grass or gravel again on some of these tracks rather than relying on drivers trying to bend the rules.

TedBrosby- said:

https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/1013...onsiders-withdrawing-protest-against-fia.html
So... Will you stop participating in F1 discussions as well as watching events or...?
Sorry, since you claimed that Max's win would be reversed or they would lose real F1 fans, I'm assuming that since Mercedes is withdrawing and the second FIA protest was also dismissed (meaning Max is champion because even if they appeal further, the race outcome has been determined), that you will be moving on to something more fair like GT3?

For the record, I hope you continue to watch, because Lewis will absolutely win his 8th WDC next year, and hopefully by actually driving, having regs apply to him fairly as they apply to his opponents (No Silverstone was NOT a racing incident, so if what happened there was okay then what happened at Abu Dhabi was okay) and actually racing.

But I completely dislike the way you call people who say Max's win was legit "not real F1 fans". Gatekeeping like that is unacceptable and honestly, if people who say stuff like that stop watching F1, I say good riddance. The sport will live longer without toxicity.

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As long as we don't return to the pre-intervention safety car rankings and Masi leaves his job, F1 will only have my disgust and my deep disinterest. After the race I unsubscribed from anything F1 related and uninstalled Assetto Corsa, RFactor 2 and F1 2021.

Whether F1 is a fair sport or it's a bucket of ****

I don't care if I seem toxic in your opinion because in my opinion, accepting without discussing what happened is not having sporting values. What happened is and will remain unacceptable as it stands.

If it stays as it is, enjoy this reality show parodying a motor racing championship without me and try to convince yourself it's not become **** in cans

Mercedes new 2022 clothing line. Soon also available in the fanshop

asdfl;jsk said:

Not sure 'leaving another driver options' has ever been part of the F1 vocab. Look up F1 divebomb compilation on youtube, most of them involve leaving little to no room for the outside car (like almost every Monza T1 divebomb).

Also what are you basing this bolded part on? Max is coming in with higher speed and still manages to brake and make the corner. It stands to reason that Hamilton would have been able to make the corner as well if he really wanted to. Only that would have obviously resulted in him going second through the corner.

Anyway, if you don't defend your corner against a slipstreaming opponent, don't be surprised when you get divebombed on the inside, and run out of road by an overtaking driver on the racing line. F1 should just start putting down grass or gravel again on some of these tracks rather than relying on drivers trying to bend the rules.

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So this means, running another car off the track or into a wall should be allowed. I disagree.
And if there had been gravel in Brazil, Max would have been out of the race

Anyway, let's enjoy we have a new WC

TedBrosby- said:

And for Lewis: I honestly believe he will beat Schumacher's record next year. He just needs to actually race, to win it this time and tell his team to stop coddling him on the RD radio. If they let Lewis drive and listened to his feedback, they'd get to see him win on the merit he deserves to win by.

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I thought that this season, Lewis raced like he hasn’t raced in a long time. He finally had real opposition against him.

As for Mercedes, I don’t think they coddled him. On the contrary, they kept ignoring his requests for more proactive pit strategies. That’s one of the reasons he lost yesterday. Bono and Toto seem to think that their strategies are set in stone at the start and that they’re always right. How many times have we heard Bono on the radio say « That’s the right call, Lewis. »?

TedBrosby- said:

https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/1013...onsiders-withdrawing-protest-against-fia.html
So... Will you stop participating in F1 discussions as well as watching events or...?
Sorry, since you claimed that Max's win would be reversed or they would lose real F1 fans, I'm assuming that since Mercedes is withdrawing and the second FIA protest was also dismissed (meaning Max is champion because even if they appeal further, the race outcome has been determined), that you will be moving on to something more fair like GT3?

For the record, I hope you continue to watch, because Lewis will absolutely win his 8th WDC next year, and hopefully by actually driving, having regs apply to him fairly as they apply to his opponents (No Silverstone was NOT a racing incident, so if what happened there was okay then what happened at Abu Dhabi was okay) and actually racing.

But I completely dislike the way you call people who say Max's win was legit "not real F1 fans". Gatekeeping like that is unacceptable and honestly, if people who say stuff like that stop watching F1, I say good riddance. The sport will live longer without toxicity.

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I think Lewis is going to have more than his handful with his teammate next year. If I was putting money on the line, I'd take Russell next year over Hamilton and take the odds. Not because Lewis isn't great, he's certainly the GOAT in my book, but I think Russell is the real deal and would expect father time to be catching up with Lewis.

BrainsBush said:

Mercedes new 2022 clothing line. Soon also available in the fanshop

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They should hire this lawyer, he’s very good…

muzikant said:

but hey... Merc also made a mistake not to do the pit stop. We can put all the blame on Massi but this is certainly a fact

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yea if you call it a mistake you are misinformed. Masi informed the teams they will not be moving the lapped cars out of the way. Because of that info Mercedes decided not to pit. Then Redbull pulled the trigger and complained to Masi to move the lapped cars outta the way... so he obeyed. They did it really obvious it’s ridiculous. End of story.

zwiss said:

I felt the same way at the start, but look at it this way:
Max did an aggressive late dive (just like Ricciardo does a lot)
Whatever you do, you should always leave the other cars with OPTIONS.
In this case: Lewis was already turning into the corner at a certain speed when Max made his dive.
Was it possible for Lewis to break hard, stay on track and slot in behind Max? No, he also had too much speed. So his ONLY option was to leave the track, Max made him do it, hence no penalty.

It was different in Barcelona. Max also made an aggressive move, and Lewis decided to fight him in the corner, but he had at all times the OPTION to back out. That's why Max got no punishment.

I think, if you get more into detail, you will find more consistency from the FIA than would appear at first glance. But of course, some in this forum are true fanboys that feel that their driver is ALWAYS right.

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There's two competing arguments here.

1) Verstappen made a clean dive, didn't hit or make Lewis drive wide, and took the lead

2) Verstappen braked late, didn't give Hamilton a car's width and Hamilton had to take evasive action

Verstappen has done this for years where he parks his car where the competitor wants to turn and has never been penalised. But he was not given the benefit yesterday. And he was not given the benefit because the stewards are now trying to make an example of a "clean" overtake / defence between these two. Which incidentally, they did not care about when coming to the Brazil decision.

If this had not been the race decider, Lewis would have to give that position up. Likewise, if this was not the race decider, Hamilton wins behind the SC. The stewards / Masi took the occasion into account when stewarding, and that's not right.

Mike Kadlcak said:

yea if you call it a mistake you are misinformed. Masi informed the teams they will not be moving the lapped cars out of the way. Because of that info Mercedes decided not to pit. Then Redbull pulled the trigger and complained to Masi to move the lapped cars outta the way... so he obeyed. They did it really obvious it’s ridiculous. End of story.

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Mercedes was too careful Unfortunately

Corbyy said:

Not for long

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No-one will overturn the decision, that would punishes Red Bull who did no wrong. FIA and Masi will get a bollocking.