Community Question: Where Is The Immersion Line Drawn?

Ferrari 499P iRacing.jpg
Image: iRacing
Many sim racers try to get as close as we can to replicating the real thing, which is all well and good. But where is that line drawn? We would like all of your input here.

Ahead of iRacing 2025 Season 1 starting up on December 17, the headline new piece of content is undoubtedly the two-time Le Mans-winning Ferrari 499P Hypercar. Plenty of iRacing players are eager to drive it, but there was some initial confusion as to where it could be raced in officials.

But following its release, another few glaring inconsistencies arose that now add to the conversation surrounding realism and immersion. With all this in mind, it is time to really ask the question about where certain players are willing to part with immersion and where it is essential for the experience.


Should The 499P Not Be In IMSA?​

Within the GTP class on iRacing prior to the new build, there were four cars: the BMW M Hybrid V8, Cadillac V-Series.R, Porsche 963 and Acura ARX-06. All of these cars race in the real-life IMSA SportsCar Championship's GTP category but also in the World Endurance Championship's Hypercar class - bar the Acura.

The 499P marks the first time that a car designed to comply with LMH regulations as opposed to LMDh has been added to the platform, but it does not race in the IMSA GTP class in real life. The upcoming Aston Martin Valkyrie LMH is set to be the first LMH to race in the North American series, and there is nothing to indicate that the 499P will be attempting a run at the likes of the Daytona 24 Hours or Sebring 12 Hours.

As a result, many people questioned as to where the 499P would be able to be raced in officials.


For those out there still not sure, the 499P will be available along with all of the other GTP class cars in their respective iRacing official series. Subsequently, it is safe to assume it will be also joining them in their corresponding Special Events such as the Daytona 24. But it seems there are some people who are still unsure at least or even angry at most that the 499P will be amongst the selection.

Sim racing does provide the capabilities to branch beyond what the real world of racing is restricted by. So when a car appears in something that is not exactly true to reality but would feasibly fit into it, would that be just as bad as a modern F1 car racing in the 24 hours of Le Mans?

The same goes for tracks. In Week 2 of the upcoming iRacing season, all corresponding IMSA series will be hosting races at Motegi. Just because the real life IMSA do not race there, is that too far removed from reality? Of course, this is all quite trivial, at least relatively to an even bigger uproar within the iRacing community right now regarding the GTP cars.

Prototypes Too Fast?​

For the new build, iRacing have been tweaking the performance of the Dallara LMP2 and all of the GTP cars, apparently to bring them more in line with how they drive in the real world. Well, they may have in fact gone the other way.

Two of the highest iRating players, Pablo Araujo and Yuri Kasdorp, both made posts pointing out the discrepancy in terms of corner speed between some of the GTP cars at certain corners and their real-life counterparts. Araujo showing the real life Ferrari 499P going through the Porsche curves at Circuit de la Sarthe going 230kph, whilst the same conditions on iRacing had the car being able to take it at 288kph.


But that is not all. Another issue with the GTP cars on iRacing is how they deploy their battery. In real life and depicted accurately in the likes of Le Mans Ultimate and Automobilista 2, the power output by the engine remains the same whether the battery is being deployed or not. In this case, the battery is there to make up the deficit in order to use less fuel across a stint.

In iRacing though, the battery deploys the same way it does in Formula One or LMP1 cars, deploying on top of the engine to create additional power. That probably explains why the cars are getting to much higher speeds in iRacing than in real life. With all this in mind, we put it to you, which areas are essential for immersion and which ones are not necessary?

What are the aspects of sim racing where you do not mind it being not completely true to life? Let us know in the comments below and join the discussion on our forums!
About author
RedLMR56
Biggest sim racing esports fan in the world.

Comments

Premium
I think this particular subject brings out the worst in the community - there are too many arrogant idiots hell bent on claiming one sim has the definitive physics, whereas all others are crap.

Hell you even get these totally brainless prats claiming that you're not a serious simracer if you play anything other than "x" title.

So, with my "brainless idiot" hat on, I shall give the utterly irrefutable facts about the physics of certain titles.

ACC - Absolutely great, drives like I would imagine a real GT3 car would. Heavy and not overly responsive, but still nimble.

AC - Disappointing - If the road cars actually handled in real life like they do in the game then the respective manufacturers would be drowning in lawsuits.

rF2 - pretty good, but it would be better if the cars didn't bounce around like they're little RC cars.

DR2.0 - Effing brilliant. Rallying should be difficult and fun, and this is it.

iRacing - 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

WRC series (9 and onwards). Not bad, captures rallying, but there's a disconnect which reduces the fun factor.

AMS2 - No, just no. Although I haven't tried 1.6 yet.

And I'll leave it at that.

Let me put my serious hat on now. It shouldn't matter to anybody what I've written above as they are just my opinions, and I'm not going argue with anybody disagreeing with them as everybody's expectation of a sim is different. So I guess we can sum it up like this.

The sim with the best physics is the one that you enjoy driving the most.

The sim with the worst physics is the one you dislike driving the most.

As far a realism is concerned none of them actually represent a truly realistic model of the car or track that you're driving, so it really doesn't matter if you prefer one sim over another.
You would think most of this (other than that AMS2 comment:O_o:) is just common sense. I CANNOT wrap my head around someone thinking an (someone else's) opinion can be subjectively argued as if it were objectively right or wrong. As you say, none of these games are close to reality.

Haha, the same type of person mentioned above will be the same one to convince you that their game is the best, trying to convert you and then gate keep to keep 'noobs' out.

lol sry goin off topic here
 
none of these games are close to reality
Indeed, and what is a step in the right direction when we are still 10,000 miles away? More importantly, should that step be in the way of our enjoyment, what ever enjoyment is to us.
Most of the "news" presented here, mostly promote the new and shiny, trying, and succeeding some time, to entice the reader into buying the latest DLC gizmo.
In reality, we already have more excellent choice to play with, covering all angle and individual preferences, than we can use, even if retired and playing one or two hours every day.
So, no, sorry, I do not need the get premium, to have chance to win some pedals, mine will do nicely. And no, I am not planning on spending any money on "upgrading" my perfectly fine set up.
As for software, yes curious about the new Kunos offering, because Kunos. Do not need it, but will get it anyway, because Kunos. But will get it, what ever anybody else says or write, because Kunos.
 
Premium
I think it's pretty much down to what your brain does with the missing bits and the bits that are there, mine stitches the bits up in a fairly convincing story no matter what the game or sim,
however if I lose my 'murshun' then I start criticizing, but it does take a lot to do that, I have my stomach jolt when I fall down a hole in minecraft, and I press crouch to 'hold on' when looking over a high build so hard that my thumb goess white.
I race the Aston DB2/4 in GTL-GTR2 and it has no interior but I don't care, I just don't see it not being there.

So as far as I see if the game or sim is doing a good job then you're there! like a really good book or a convincing tale in film, and I'm not sure that adding too much bling and graphics will help in the long run, yeah, it's something that the adverts can shout about, but that will only sell a few extra copies to folks that will discard it in a week or two... not the genral run of the mill car enthusiast, they in general want a bit more that just 'shiny'
 
los-simpson.gif


+100

Didn't say it any better myself :p

Yeah , no people not your intelligence.
20 people could Lan the same car same setup same FFB same everything and all have different experience and level of immersion for any number of reasons they concoct in their minds.

Happiest person on planet or most depressed figures into how we perceive everything.

rFactor 2 by detractors in early days was called a cartoon, bad engine sounds, canned starter ...blah.
Frankly I never saw any of it because the physical immersion simply overwhelmed everything else
in my noggin.

Even if you get the same person to test all sims and rate immersion they could be swayed by unconscious feelings based on previous experience.

I mean take anyone who dislikes a engine for whatever reasons, they cant be unbiased even if they "think" they want to :x3:
 
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Whole point of a racing simulator is to build games for race car nerds that attempt to get as many little details correct as possible.

Completely agree...

Sadly we live in an era where that went out the window in favour of easier driving physics and the grip which leads to all these set up exploits that people complain about...

The majority will rush for the latest shiny thing that sounds great without even checking the stats of the car they are going to race... Praise the developer if they've created a car that is easy to drive and move on to the next one...

iRacing was never really praised for it's accuracy, but there was a time when the other developers didn't just blindly follow their lead with inaccurate cars... Nowdays we get a bunch of LMP1s masquerading as hypercars...
 
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In fact it is how you approach the whole thing.

As a gamer or as something else.

And I have never been comfortable with the mélange of the genre of this site. Putting forza and rf2 together is so bizarre.
 
Premium
The subjectivity of the discussion should make it so painfully obviously clear that sim racing is absolutely just like real racing and is so immensely different from driver to driver. Hamilton's setup is not the one true perfect setup, now is Verstappen's. They each are tailored.

Sim Racing needs options to suit everyone and be tailored. Leagues can tailor their leagues as they decide and let popularity decide if there is enough agreement for a full grid to race - or even 2 people.

But right now there is so much obscene we'll tell you how you sim race and you'll like it nonsense that it truly ruins it all. the iRacing penalty system is a joke, there is no racing without accountability. Gran Turismo 7 has 100x the number of active racers than all the others combined, and yet BeamNG allows the options that makes it the perfect sim racer for each racer. And surprise surprise, there is more great fantastic racing in BeamNG because they can create the game modes that are the most realistic, immersive, fun, or just plan intense and only possible in a virtual setting.

The most bone headed nonsense ruining these development studios is the absolute refusal to see reality, and get stuck in academic lunacy. They fear if they "splinter the playerbase" with anything too extreme or options, they will lose. When the exact opposite is clearly happening and shows in the big picture player base.

Options. Let Us decide. Clearly producers and execs can't and never could or will get it right. There never will be one size fits all.

 
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Premium
There's no point in calling the car a Ferrari 499P if it's not an accurate representation.
You may as well call it the "OkeyPokey 987" if it's just a hypothetical car...
or perhaps go Star Wars Podracing?
:)
 
Completely agree...

Sadly we live in an era where that went out the window in favour of easier driving physics and the grip which leads to all these set up exploits that people complain about...

The majority will rush for the latest shiny thing that sounds great without even checking the stats of the car they are going to race... Praise the developer if they've created a car that is easy to drive and move on to the next one...

iRacing was never really praised for it's accuracy, but there was a time when the other developers didn't just blindly follow their lead with inaccurate cars... Nowdays we get a bunch of LMP1s masquerading as hypercars...
I don't think any of the top sim developers are TRYING to make it easier ...or harder for that matter. The problem is that they are trying to put real life into mathematical equations and code to best emulate something that is impossible to emulate. Most do a pretty good job but it will never be perfect. Whatever sim "fools" your mind best is probably the one you like the most.

As far as far as immersion line (article topic), I think most simracers don't want their cars to randomly break down due to thinks like electronic failure, fuel line damage, oil leak, etc. and I don't think simracers would ever get onboard for red flag situations.
 
Premium
I don't think any of the top sim developers are TRYING to make it easier ...or harder for that matter. The problem is that they are trying to put real life into mathematical equations and code to best emulate something that is impossible to emulate. Most do a pretty good job but it will never be perfect. Whatever sim "fools" your mind best is probably the one you like the most.

As far as far as immersion line (article topic), I think most simracers don't want their cars to randomly break down due to thinks like electronic failure, fuel line damage, oil leak, etc. and I don't think simracers would ever get onboard for red flag situations.
some do. and some want tire punctures as part of the most common damage seen in almost every single race every day everywhere around the planet.

But it should be an option. Those who don't want it should be able to simulate a nicer run flat world.
 
Car is not just too fast, is like, literally arcade level.

Imagine paying the iracing fee to get this level of oversight.
 
I don't think any of the top sim developers are TRYING to make it easier ...or harder for that matter. The problem is that they are trying to put real life into mathematical equations and code to best emulate something that is impossible to emulate. Most do a pretty good job but it will never be perfect. Whatever sim "fools" your mind best is probably the one you like the most.

As far as far as immersion line (article topic), I think most simracers don't want their cars to randomly break down due to thinks like electronic failure, fuel line damage, oil leak, etc. and I don't think simracers would ever get onboard for red flag situations.

I agree with most of your comment, we're only at like 60% of the possible simulation level physically...

The race teams are at 80% maybe... The rest is all fudged to fit...

But what's happening these days in racing sims is there's a lot of developers that aren't even putting real world numbers in... Most hypercars that have been released had the incorrect levels of grip both in terms of tyres and aero and the way the hybrid worked as a p2p was like the old LMP1s... It was clearly just an LMP1 physics code with new models and sounds, completely ignoring a lot of the point of hypercar and the BOP with LMH and LMDh... All of them except LMU fall into this category...

Since the boom of AC and pCARS sim racing has seen a stark rise in grip, not just accounting for the zeroing out effect of too many numbers thanks to more nodes in the tyre codes... But from simple flavour choices to appease bigger crowds from various devs... S397 fanboys will try and sell you that they didn't, but they've got a few cars in their rF2 library that fall into this level of too much grip and weird slip curves that don't match the level of track side technology we have in the year 2024 for race teams...

This extra grip leads to more set up hacks and the age old arguments of the physics are better in sim x because set up hack y doesn't exist but set up hack z does...

It's one of the reasons I'm also not that fussed about AI outside of titles with simplistic physics or stand alone titles that focus on one series... Far too much to fudge to create a realistic AI and far too much in the gap between real world physics and sim racing physics for AI to be top of the line in anything but the more simplistic titles like the F1 series...
 
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